EP 50 Jeff Knoll

A play on the triumph and losses in performance and life.  The Talent Tank podcast will navigate the inner workings of lifestyle, lives, family, teams, careers, programs, and technology in and around the offroad motorsports industry.  What breeds success with your Talent Tank on full, failures when its on empty.  From the journey to the Starting Line to take that Green Flag, on to exploring trials and tribulations on and off the track in pursuit of victorious achievement and the Checkered Flag.

The other, and lesser known half of the passionate duo who pioneered the King of the Hammers and ULTRA4 Racing franchise, Jeff Knoll @poppa_jefe joins us on The Talent Tank on this momentous milestone Episode 50 and Spring 2021 Season Finale.  Thought provocateur, entrepreneur, always forward thinker, and Flaming Hot Cheeto hater.  Join in on this discussion on how idea inception, perception play their roles in our daily critical thinking. What about walking away from everything he loved in off-road racing?  There's actually life after it!  Re-invention, and what agility mean to successes in careers, and life.   Reflection and comparisons of style and circumstance give way to an amazing discussion on sponsors, courting sponsorships, and golden nuggets for those of you chasing them.  

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Transcript

Intro/Outro: 0:02

Let's drop the green flag on this episode of the talent tank podcast with your host Wyatt Pemberton bringing you the best, fastest most knowledgeable personalities and Ultra4 and off road racing

Wyatt Pemberton: 0:21

all right all right all right, here we go. Episode 50 spring season Ender 2021. Looking back at me one of the one of the guys that got this whole thing started ultra for King of the hammers. one of the founders, Jeff Knoll, Jefferson Knoll, how are you today?

Jeff Knoll: 0:42

I'm great. Thanks for having me on why and congrats on 50 episodes of the talent tank. Thanks for the opportunity.

Wyatt Pemberton: 0:48

Well, you're a milestone guy. And so I knew when I you know was going after you I've charted it out and then we just happen to have that clubhouse session, and I had your name on the list and we had that first clubhouse session for the Moab race and you stayed on afterwards and you made a comment like hey, I'm always game I'm getting for that. And I was like, Oh, yes, this is happening.

Unknown: 1:10

Yeah, I've been listening for a long time. You've had some really great stories on here that I've really enjoyed You know, I think lately the brand level one was really good learned a few things but you know, dad is probably my favorite you know, that was the that was one of the best episodes I really enjoyed it was a trip down memory lane and I got to learn a few things so hopefully we can live up to the to what everybody else has done

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:36

which always cracks me up on some of these like guys that absolutely know every what I believe you know, being a Texas guy and not a West Coast guy where you know you and Wayne lived in Menifee, you're you lived in Menifee, you lived a couple miles apart in Menifee. And I knew you guys knew each other. You're over there with some regularity. But when someone like he was telling me things that about Wayne that you didn't know, I'm like, Wow, that's pretty dang cool.

Unknown: 1:59

Yeah, it was it was a great episode. And Wayne's been a great friend and enjoyed his family. And growing up through racing with him. It's been awesome.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:09

We will get into cash, all the chronology and I'm really kind of excited about where this is going to go because it's not necessarily racing centric, because there's gonna be some history here. But I think there's some really cool mental challenges that I want to discuss with you. And I know you have interesting takes on but but today, here we are, we're sitting you know, 2021. This is, you know, spring and Episode 50 of the talent tank. It's coming up on a two year old program, which is crazy. That means you're the 15th guy, or lady gal that has been a pillar within the ultra for community, either from racer promoter, an ultra working for ultra for being a sponsor being a vendor, and there's no end in sight. I mean, you're 50 in there's there's another couple 100 right of just amazing individuals making new stories. Every single day, every single race every single night in the shop.

Unknown: 3:03

Yep, there. That's the beauty of it. You get a whole new crop coming in, you know, My son is building a Jeep right now. In, in inside and outside of my shop. He's doing a lot of the work outside because he can't get the thing and there's not space for it. And painting and doing all that so you It's awesome to see the next generation coming up and carrying the torch.

Wyatt Pemberton: 3:22

Yeah, this is this is all fun. So you are you know today working for Lincoln Electric. You live up in the Reno Nevada area. I believe you are involved with if I remember correctly, and this goes back a long ways. We've known each other for many years. But you went to work for torch mate, which I think most of us are familiar of torch mate certainly in the old days but it was a no Koontz big sponsor of of off road he he raced regularly. He was you know, sponsor when he raced at the levels. Jesse Haynes went to work for him at one point they built that ttv car. There's just a lot of folks around the torch, mate circle, and then torch may hit a threshold. They hit a plateau where Lincoln Electric they popped up on the clouds and Lincoln Electric bottom you read welders. They snag you up and you're working there now and I believe you do stuff still in Cutting Systems. Is that is that right?

Unknown: 4:13

Yeah. So I started off my relationship. Shortly after King I left king of the hammers. I started up a little marketing agency that was focused on racing and off road. And so we had some good clients Kawasaki. We worked with them the offroad Business Association and towards me, and so bill was contracting with me to kind of manage some of their race program. Then after Lincoln purchased, we stayed on board for a while and then Lincoln offered me a full time gig so went to work for torch mate started off with just some basic marketing and block and tackle work for them and kind of grew through the organization. And at this point, I think I've held every front end of the house job within Lincoln or excuse me within torch made included even manage the business for a little while, two years ago. So just a tremendous opportunity to grow within Lincoln. And today, I still manage a group of four marketing for torch mate. We've got a lot of structural steel stuff that we're responsible for. I've got a team of people all over the world that work in marketing and product development. So my newest gig with LinkedIn is we're focused on product development, they moved our product development over to the marketing function for for the cutting products. And so I've got a few product managers that report to me, and we're just trying to build some really exciting new products.

Wyatt Pemberton: 5:37

So when we were working to schedule this up, you told me you had some timing constraints, because I think you were managing a team that's maybe in Europe, or you were on a different schedule. So you're having to be up really early in the morning, but also late at night. Is that still going on? Oh, yeah,

Unknown: 5:53

yeah, my days start typically about 5am, sometimes a little earlier. And they go until four or five in the afternoon. So we're pumping out a lot of hours right now. We just purchased a new organization in Austria, and I'm part of the integration team for that. So we're bringing them on board and pretty excited about it. It's automation, robotics, robotic welding, and assembly are structural steel.

Wyatt Pemberton: 6:15

Well, that's super badass. I have a torch, right and myself, I absolutely suck at it. You know, you see guys, they just think in that three dimensional cut world. And in X, Y axis, my head just doesn't work that way. But I do have a torch mate. And so I took a Polish, of course, actually drove by the Lincoln facility here in Houston, every day, twice a day, once each way. And they have a they have a pretty sweet little building. And they've got a little clap classroom in there. And then they got a big shop in the back with a lot of test equipment. And then yeah, they had a crash almost. It was a four day course. It was a multiple day course. Who's your main trainer? You said his name? I definitely remember feel like it like Spencer. Jake, Jake read or he? He it was he? That's who it was. So is he still with you guys? Oh, yeah,

Unknown: 7:01

yeah, he's the face of torch mate. He does all of our video tutorials and our marketing videos and stuff. So I'm really fortunate, I was able to build a full video production team in Reno. So we shoot a lot of video, we're doing always doing a lot of video stuff, which is the wave of the future. You know, everybody, nobody wants to read a book, they just want to watch a video.

Wyatt Pemberton: 7:20

Yeah. And then you go back and hit pause and backup if you missed it. And some and that's really been what helped me, but I will tell you. Yeah, he was awesome. Like I said, I sat through, I want to say was three or four days of courses with ag. And, you know, looking at the new system. And you know, my system at this point is, gosh, I won't say it's like a 2010 or 2011 model. So it's it's a decade old, it still cuts great, but you know, I don't use it remotely to its potential. And maybe I use it once every two months. It's not very, it's not very often, he shows me the new model, the new 4400 that was sitting there and working through that. And I was like, wow, I need this. I really need this. And then like he gives me the price on I was like, Well, I don't need this.

Unknown: 8:04

Yeah, you know, for those that are paying attention, you might see the my thumb prints on the 4400. With the name, it's a little bit of a nod to our legacy. So there was some pushback when I when I picked the name for that series. everybody's like, why are we calling it a 4400 dice at all? I just think it's a great number.

Wyatt Pemberton: 8:24

I mean, I did I can see the connection I certainly associated in my head what but I didn't know that there was well now we know there's the big easter egg. Yeah, sir. And those those machines are something else and they've taken your just CNC plasma cutting has taken, you know, our genre of Motorsports, all Motorsports to just this next level, and then being able to get them you know, torch might take them to the point where you hit, you know, the hobby guy can get one in his in his own garage, and have one in that. I mean, you still have the ability to take, you know, hand plasma and a grinder or, or torch and a grinder or you know, a bandsaw and a flat disc and still create meant to get rep you know, if you're doing you know, set of 16 tabs. You want them all to look the same. Yeah, you know, back in the day when we were getting 25 and $30,000 for a car that was built. That was one thing today these cars are $100,000 and they're just it looks like some garage mill hack. Shit. It's not gonna fetch that it's it's just not so what torchlight did for pirate and then what it did for kind of King hammer stuff, man remember when they used to have a table on the like bed, man. So a

Unknown: 9:39

lot of tables down there. I mean, that's really a testament to Bill Coons vision. He's, you know, he was the one that pushed that and really had this idea that everybody can have a machine in their garage, then towards me, it's been around a long time his dad started the business. I think it was 1979 when they started selling pentagram kits out of the back. Popular Mechanics so been around a long time, I think they really push the envelope and blink and brought a lot to the table and opened up doors to develop new things. And, you know, it's they got 11,000 employees around the globe or just about 11,000 employees. So you get a lot of opportunity to, to meet really smart people when it comes to this industry. And the thing I like about Lincoln is they don't really diversify out of the industry, they're really focused on putting together an acorn to oak platform for somebody that's into manufacturing. So you know, they can help you, if you got a construction business, they can help you if you've got a lights out manufacturing business, and they can help you if you're just a guy with a dream in your garage that's working on the floor with a vise in a grinder, like you're talking about. So I got something for everybody.

Wyatt Pemberton: 10:46

I'm gonna have to send you an invoice for the advertising you're getting here. Not just a great company, I really believe in them and they got a great history. I'm fully with you there. Like I said, I've been very happy with my piece of equipment and I needed a little touch up training session and I got an email from you guys. And I had a window on my schedule. I went and he was the man I really appreciate the guy and I know you can pick up the phone and call your tech support. It's all really good and set up. Let's actually talk about ultra for and the reason I've got you on right what is in we're talking about current affairs for you, basically life, life after racing, like that exist. That's number one. In my book, you're kind of like an older Gypsy, you know, you're like an older Kyle segolene. You know, you like you You have this beautiful brain, great human, and you will apply it but at the end of the day, you're always doing something that is a little bit different and off from everybody else.

Unknown: 11:42

That's fair. That's fair. So I guess we're we go anywhere you want with this. Why? You know, I think it was right around the time of the Oji 13 event. I will call it or non event. I was actually planning to be there Dave and I had made these plans before we jumped there

Wyatt Pemberton: 12:01

sure go back to the exact Genesis like where you guys sitting at a bar with a with a napkin and you wrote it down on the back are as talking to Randy slawson slawson said, Hey, David said, you know, they were they were on whatever his Toyota on 30 ones on wrecking ball or somewhere. And, and Randy said we basically laughed him three times. And David said, you know, that was like the inspiration was like, Well, why do we do this show? Why don't we just see if we can do all the trails? Yeah,

Unknown: 12:30

so the one thing I would just my disclaimer to this, and I'm really, I'm really big on studying this topic right now is perception, right? So everybody's history is going to be a little different. And my disclaimer is that my history is probably a little different than some of the other history because what I remember bits and pieces, absolutely. And perception really kind of drives that. So what I would say is, it goes back to when Dave and I met, we were my wife, and my brother and his wife, were promoting what was called crca, the California rock crawlers Association,

Wyatt Pemberton: 13:03

and we're going to talk about that here in the future. As we get into correct chronology.

Unknown: 13:07

You know, there was a group of people, Bart Dixon comes to mind Kary, steiners. And other there was a group of people that I've just four wheeled with. For our part, we weren't really in that group of people weren't really in the loop with the Pirate four by four crowd, there was all these little factions or tribes, if you will, based around clubs. And so everybody had their own little deal. But But what we like to do was, you know, we would go out to the hammers in the summertime, when there was nobody around on a Friday afternoon after work or something, you just go run trails, and we just pick a trail, go run it, come back, and then you know, get back at one two in the morning and you pack up or drink a couple beers around the fire and then go home in the morning. So we were up trying to run trails pretty fast back then. There's like last Cody's Indian reservations, Scott Hartman and I were in a Jeep club together. We used to spend a lot of time there. And we would go out on night runs and run pretty fast. Usually, it always happened after you had a few beers, and you and you'd go out on a night run and shenanigans would happen. But this idea of going trail racing, if you will, the folks that avalanche ranch Weaver Mike Weaver, I think he was doing an avalanche ranch race with zarei. In the early days, he had the 24 hours on the hammers, events. So this idea of bringing the excitement of Baja into rock crawling was always interesting to me. So you know, Dave, and I met through my step mom nowy. We got together, and we're talking about some ideas. I'm still kind of formulating this idea for a virtual racing platform. And Dave and I got together to talk about how could you do this? And you know, 12 years ago, 15 years ago, that didn't exist at all. We didn't know what apps were. And Dave was the one that said look, instead of trying to make this so complicated, why don't we just put on a race and go do the race and that kind of was Kind of just set aside, it was like, hey, that's a great idea. Until Dave kind of said, Look, I just want to do it. Let's just do it. You know, unfortunately, I had some issues with business I had at the time, I wasn't able to attend the PG 13. That's a whole nother story where I had to back out the day before and not show up because I was dealing with some business issues. But that's kind of how it happened. I mean, it really was not much more than just an idea on on the napkin. I think we were at an Applebee's or Chili's or something like that in San Bernardino, where we got together just started spitballing ideas. And next thing, you know, the king of the hammers happens.

Wyatt Pemberton: 15:33

And you said, I've heard you say this, you know, oh, gee, 13. And, you know, JT, let us all know, you know, there was only 12 of them. But you push back on that. And you say, No, there really was 13 it was Dave was number 13. out running around in front trying to keep everybody

Unknown: 15:50

that's my feeling. You know, I if anybody ever asked me, there's 13 and Dave would be the 13th guy. So he was part of that Oji tribe or or group, if you will, that made it happen. So there's 13 To my mind, and I'll be more than happy to take that 13 spot to King of the hammers if I ever want to race if if he's not interested in

Wyatt Pemberton: 16:09

it. So Oh, I like that. Yeah. Well, I think I think you should we need to line you up a car and and figure it out. I mean, today, he can get into UTV and they'll let you run, right.

Unknown: 16:22

Yeah, that was part of my exit agreement. So I do have a standing invitation for King of the hammers whenever I want it. So I don't have to qualify.

Wyatt Pemberton: 16:29

Oh, there you go. You get to write your rule. So that was a Oh, seven, then. Oh, 8090 10. And then you x did? When did you exit about 1112? Somewhere in there?

Unknown: 16:41

I think 11 I got to look at my notes. I can't really remember. But I think it was around 11. Yeah. 2011. And that was shortly after the race in 2011.

Wyatt Pemberton: 16:52

I mean, that was a shock. At now hindsight, looking back. And even you you you haven't perspective in retrospect on this, which is always interesting to have that conversation now at the time was that you you approached Dave to buy him out? Or he he wanted you out? What was kind of the as we look back at it, you know, wounds have healed and band aids have been pulled off. And what was kind of the, I don't know, the genesis of

Unknown: 17:20

it wasn't that clean? You know, there was anybody that's worked with Dave knows that it can be difficult at times. And looking back on it, I will tell you, I wish I was more mature in business at the time to maybe check some of my emotions. But we fought like cats and dogs and we had some famous fights, we actually left Bart Dixon standing in the middle of the desert, in the summer with no water took off in his truck, because we didn't want to fight in front of him. And I don't remember if we went back picked him up for a walk back to camp or what, but he's pretty sore about the whole thing. We had some pretty famous fights and the 2011 race was especially difficult, you know, with BLM permits, and all these new safety rules that had to be implemented. You know, it just was a case where I no longer wanted to have a partner, you know, the I don't want to dig up bones or pull up baggage. But that whole year, that whole season, we had launched the there was a lot of trying episodes, I would say, we launched the race up in Reno, the stampede, and it was just a it was a difficult year for growth. And, you know, I wasn't in a position where I wanted to have a partner anymore. So I asked to buy out Dave and Dave, you know, said look, I'm not interested in selling, you know, either we're gonna work this out, or we're all making the same offer, you're making me and I accepted his offer unless the organization.

Wyatt Pemberton: 18:41

So I remember, some my daughter was born, you know, like seven days before that race. So I wasn't at the 20 11k wage. And we're you know, is this kind of transpired and made its waves through Facebook was still for the most part infancy there was still a little bit of a pirate, but when that news reached, you know, the rest of us that you guys had parted ways it was it was like, Oh my gosh, the world's ending. And it didn't, right. I mean, it's it's gone on, they've just taken ultra Florida where we see it today, I'm gonna come almost a loss for words. He's a big idea guy, and everyone will tell you that and he's done some just absolutely amazing things. Do you think if you were if he'd gone the other way, you know, this alternate reality where Mr. Destiny happens and it's you ended up with it and Dave walks away. Where do you think ultra force sits today? You know, with the different management styles, different ideas, styles? What's your take on where you would have gone with it?

Unknown: 19:40

I don't think it would be nearly as big as it is today. If I had taken the helm I'm a lot more conservative. You know, I you know, we've talked about this offline. And you know, over the years why, you know, the business was held was healthy. When I was there with solvent. We paid our bills on time. I don't know what it is now. But that's The big deal to me is to make sure that you've got enough capital to keep going and be able to do the next event. So we were always in a pretty good spot while I was there. And again, I don't know what it is now. But you know, growth costs money. I know that and that that business has grown tremendously. There's a lot of choices that he's made that I think have been very successful that I just wouldn't have, frankly, had the guts to do. I mean, yeah, the guy and the guy goes for it. There's no doubt.

Wyatt Pemberton: 20:28

He does, you know, and, and yeah, we've again, talked about working with Dave is trying and difficult. And, you know, even you know, my side just been media covering, covering the organization has been, you know, interesting and trying, but I give him kudos he's done. He's done something else. I'm always curious to see where we would have been, had you been there and in your take on that, and not saying that you were better or worse, or Dave was better or worse. It was just, you know, it's sometimes you know, you like a coke and sometimes you like a Pepsi? Yeah, yeah,

Unknown: 21:01

I feel, I mean, for lack of a better word, I'd say I feel very blessed for that opportunity to grow something like that, to have an idea and to see it come and become what it is. But you know, there's a price that's paid that goes with that. I like to think I have a very strong marriage after almost 31 years, I'm not sure that my marriage and family would have come out in the same position had I still been basically being a carny, you know, chasen racing all over the country. So, you know, that's a trade off that I'm, I'm satisfied with I you know, I'm very, very happy that it's done, what it's done, the relationships that I was able to build, you know, I think that's what I miss more than anything about racing. It's not so much the thrill, or, or the adrenaline rush of racing, it's more about the relationships that that race community has, I mean, you just don't see things like competitor willing to give you a complete axle assembly or differential or drive shaft or give you a wheel and tire off of his car while he's racing. You know, you just don't see that everywhere. And I think that's what's great about ultra for that community. The thing that I was most proud of is unlike any other kind of racing that I know of, in those early years when the winner came across the finish line he didn't leave stayed there. I stayed there for hours and hours and hours welcoming everybody across the finish line and you may recall that we did the same thing we went to best in the desert you know every other racer would peel out and there'd be all these ultra for guys crowded around the finish line rooting for the guys are competing to get the greatest thing in the world to me is that community was so tight and you know I'm not close to it now but I suspect is still pretty tight.

Wyatt Pemberton: 22:43

Yeah, no, it really has you talk to guys like Lauren Haley and Lauren will tell you the day that turns into not that is the day that he hangs it up and I think a lot of other competitors have that same that same thought and same mindset that uh i mean don't get me wrong there's still some secrets right there's still some secret sauce and some setup but by and large it's it's still open versus you go to a drag race and they hear nothing there's you've got to hire one of their crew guys to get in the secret sauce and and even then that's unlikely going to happen so let's get into Jeff no let's let's get into where you're from. So you're from Menifee, California. You brought up your wife you've been married to Angie for 31 years. It'll be 31 years this month. Yeah. Congratulations on that. And then growing up in Menifee? That's an interesting area like when you know the first time I was there was with you I'm riding around a truck with you it's 2009 Vegas to Reno is on I don't remember exactly the setup of how I ended up in that mix. But I do know I buy a plane ticket I flight Ontario California so you pick me up at the airport for for Vegas render you've got your your your super duty it's all you know, Chase trucked out and you drive me through Menifee and over to Wayne Israel since to dad's place. And the thing that I was shocked about around the Menifee area was it looked like that's where they filmed wild west shows from the 60s and 70s. These like rock stars do these rock formations just next to the road. And they were the big huge boulder rocks and all those things are like well, no wonder you guys were all in a rock crawling because you didn't have to go anywhere. You just have to have a you grew up in a house that had the best you rock course right in your backyard. Yeah,

Unknown: 24:32

I had an actual rock racing course on my ranch property. So you know, we broke plenty of stuff at the ranch we used to have. I had a birthday party. It was for my son and myself and kind of Memorial Day because Cody's birthday is this weekend that's on Saturday. We had a big party one year and just told everybody bring their crawlers and I mean it we ended up having a rock crawling competition with you know big speakers and big party and there was broken junk everywhere. I mean, people just destroyed their cars and I had a blazer there that belonged to the full our brothers. I think the thing was there for two years because they never came to get it after they busted it up at that party.

Wyatt Pemberton: 25:13

All the flying philosophies. Yeah. Well, that's a good good times. Well, so there's Eric. What's his brother's name? Ryan Ryan. That's it. Yeah. Ryan there. Yeah. fallar Yeah. And then those guys in Jeep speeds and help man out we do have a lot of distance to cover. Yeah, so Yeah, right there. I remember we pull into your place you lived on was it no lane like the road was named after your family? You've been there so long? Yeah, I put the sign up. No. ranch road. You did it.

Unknown: 25:43

Yeah. We've been there a long time. I think our family was the the third owners The house was built. I don't know. When there was no manaphy it was Menifee Wilson was actually the homesteader that built the property. That was his mining claim that the ranch was built on. So I think we were probably the only the third owners in my family moved there in 1972 or 73. My mom and dad moved out there and there really wasn't anything out in Menifee. So we got away with pretty much murder as kids ride in our dirt bikes all over the place. And you know, I met mograph family, I think in probably 1975 or 76. And just tore a motorcycles up all over that valley all the time. We were kids just riding riding as much as we could.

Wyatt Pemberton: 26:33

And that's what I was in awe of, you know, being a Kansas growing up in Kansas and I knew Jeremy McGrath was and there I am riding around, man, a few of you and you're like, Oh, yeah, I grew up riding dirt bikes with Jeremy McGrath. I mean, this is you guys are going about like famous race folks that I've only heard of, you know, like, like Ivan Stewart was with you when I met, you know, Ivan, the Iron Man the first time and it was like, that's Ivan Stewart. Like I remember playing his racing game at the Pizza Hut. Yeah, yeah, we're

Unknown: 27:04

fortunate they're in Southern California. I mean, it's really the epicenter for a while Menifee was the epicenter motocross world. Bunch of the guys live there. The who's who of motocross there and probably the late 90s to the 2000s was benefi.

Wyatt Pemberton: 27:19

That's where you went. And so you and Angie, you guys catch 31 years, so that backs us up to 9099. Yeah, okay. Yeah, we went to high school together. And then you guys have a couple of kids. They're adulting today there. Yep, way long gone.

Unknown: 27:36

One One more than the other. Trina's. adulting. a little harder than Cody. He's holding on for it. Can't blame him.

Wyatt Pemberton: 27:42

Fair enough. So, yeah, you've got one daughter. Where did she so you flew the Cuckoo's Nest. You guys, you and Angie got out of there. Is she still back in California? Or did you bail and she bailed too or

Unknown: 27:55

Trina left for she? She went to school at the University of Montana, never came back. We spent a lot of summers up in Montana at Carey steiners. Place her cabin off grid and enjoyed Montana and Trina was able to make friends in Montana a lot better than she couldn't. So Cal has a different different lifestyle. So she just felt like she fit in more in Montana. And so when the time came, you know, she applied for schools really early on, and was able to get a scholarship partial scholarship for the University of Montana. And so she left. I think she was still 17 when she headed up to Montana and went to school up there and met a really nice guy and she's married now and has a nine month old baby girl. And they live in Polson, Montana, my son in law's hometown.

Wyatt Pemberton: 28:40

So that makes you and Angie grandparents house. That's right. That's great. It's a good transition. It is. It's awesome. Really awesome. Oh, but I bet that is I'm not even close to that. I'm actually kind of scared even to ponder that thought of my kids having kids. So but Yeah, wow. Okay. And then Cody. We all know Cody, he's Khodro for folks. He's raised he's, he's a welder. Did he go to fab school? No, he went to the Lincoln Electric Welding School Lincoln like okay,

Unknown: 29:12

so he's got Pettit, he's pedigree welder, man. I don't even know how many certs he has. He went in to get three certs and I think he came out with six or seven. He made friends with the teachers there. He didn't have anything to do. He's alone and Cleveland, Ohio go into this welding school. So he made a deal with them that he could stay after and clean every day. And they said, Well, we can't pay you but we'll pay for certs and we'll get you extra training. So he really he did a great job there. We've got a brand new weld school Lincoln now but the old weld school. They had these cinderblock stalls for each of the students. And Cody had kind of painted murals and stuff on his and one of the things he had done with his chalk was he he painted shut up and weld and I went back about, I don't know a year after he was Gone that was still painted on the wall. And I said, Hey, you guys didn't you know, my kid graffitied the wall in here? You guys didn't clean up. There I go, No, man, that's Cody's booth. He's, uh, he's, that's, we're gonna keep that on the wall forever. So he really made an impact back there. And, you know, he's a, he's an old school welder as a kid, you know, he wants to do everything, exactly by the book and right. And that doesn't always play well with some folks. But, you know, he's very process oriented. And you know, his feeling is, I'm gonna weld something's gonna protect somebody's life. I'm gonna put my name on it, it's gonna be welded, right? So he doesn't cut any corners and pretty proud of him. He does a great job.

Wyatt Pemberton: 30:42

I think so I'm, I'm a big fan of Cody's Actually, he beat you on the talent tank. Before you know this, you talked about perspective, you know, looking back and, or perception, let's go my words perspective perception. How you perceive what happened to the event, and different people have different stories over the same minute. Well, it's like, three people can watch the exact same thing happen and then you're gonna get three different stories and, or if you have two people arguing, you know, there's at least three stories to those two people are using his his and what actually happened, right. So yeah. So Cody came on, but I remember, Cody got out of school. And then I think he ended up did he immediately end up in Florida working on that combined cycle, power plant build?

Unknown: 31:27

No, he came to work at torch mate for a few weeks or a month or so. And he made no bones about it. He stayed as a temp. And HR was trying to get him to convert to a full time and he's like, Nope, I'm a temp and I'm, you know, I want to have the freedom to leave at a moment's notice. And so my brother works for floor. And he got him on on that on that job in Florida. They basically called him I think on a Thursday and said, Hey, if you want the job, you need to be here Monday. And he threw everything he had in his little Jeep Lj and that poor thing was on the bumpstops and he drove it across country and started up that job.

Wyatt Pemberton: 32:02

The floor is headquartered right here in Sugarland, Texas. So, I know a lot of people that work at floor, and then that's it. That was a cool project. And I remember when I saw maybe on Facebook or Instagram, seeing that he'd landed there. I was like, wow, this is a this is a really cool step for him. And so when he was down there, what a couple years and then came back to California.

Unknown: 32:23

Yep. Yeah. TIG welding all night long. Oh, he's got a lot of TIG experience. He's probably well, but mile TIG.

Wyatt Pemberton: 32:33

Yeah. boiler tubes and, and all that jazz. Yeah, he's a, he's something else. But yeah, so I've got even my phone. I'll text him every now and then. And I'll hit him up is like a subject matter expert on on various things like or to settle or resolve or give me some information.

Unknown: 32:50

He doesn't forget anything. I mean, I don't even try anymore. I just asked him. You know, I don't even try to remember I'll just say hey, Cody, what? What was this? or What was that? Because if you go against him, he'll he'll call you out? No, it's always been that way. Since he's a little kid. He just very attentive and listens a lot. And when he talks though, he's usually telling the truth.

Wyatt Pemberton: 33:10

He'll text me things like that, like, Hey, I'm episode, whatever with whoever your facts are wrong. I don't I never to be the keeper of the facts. You know, I it's my reality. My reality was this. And that's how I remembered it doesn't mean it was correct. It was close. Right? I maybe got us in the ballpark. Close enough. Close enough. So he's down there. You're over in Reno now. And Angie, I believe and she's teaching, she's been teaching.

Unknown: 33:41

Yeah, she's a history teacher. She's actually very close to finishing up her master's in western history.

Wyatt Pemberton: 33:46

What is she gonna do with that? hanging on the wall? I've been asking her that question all the time. Oh, dang that,

Unknown: 33:54

but she's, uh, you know, she's very passionate about history, especially in these times, you know, where the Biden administration's trade changing up some things. She's really passionate about making sure that the kids know what's true history is and she's focused on the western states and the contribution that the western states made to, you know, the US becoming a superpower. So I mean, she's a wealth of information. I just like to say she's a historian, because that's pretty much what she is. She can tell you almost anything you want to know about Western history in the United States. Well, there you go. That brings me to a an interesting analogy I had recently have you read the book, The Accidental superpower? No, I have not adapted

Wyatt Pemberton: 34:38

to my list. So it and I'm sure people are like, Oh, what's this book? Why? Well, it's basically the hit the history of the US how the US became a superpower. And despite the American's best efforts to totally ruin our place in the world, that no matter how bad we screwed up any of the world wars, we were going to be a superpower, baby on natural resources, there was no way around it. We really, if we did we have this country, we have a history of many missteps. If we look in history that should have would have taken down many other countries, but because of our natural resources and our competitive advantage, the accidental superpower was us. It was it was us. And so this, this came up, and I kind of, you know, I couldn't help but draw the parallels to King of the hammers. And in Dave on this, like, despite sometimes Dave's best efforts to torpedo, various things are very people, the king hammers was going to be successful, no matter who was at the helm, now would have been as big as it is today with him, or the different alternate reality if it had been you. I have no idea. I mean, I'm just, you know, throwing spitballs at the wall, but uh, but I couldn't help it think about Wow, was that location in Southern California in Johnson Valley, and then the timing, you know, the timing of pirate and where we built up this camaraderie where, when to that by the time 2008 happened, and you end up with 50 racers, and then 2900 racers, you showed up on the lake bed, and you knew everybody, like, I'd never met you before. And you pick me up with your truck in Ontario, California got it. And I was like, we're all buddies.

Unknown: 36:24

I think that they could probably do a case study on how that worked in the middle of a recession. You know, I learned a lot of really valuable lessons from starting king of the hammers and going through king of the hammers. People told us, we were crazy. I mean, literally, people told us, we were crazy, nobody's gonna do this, nobody's gonna build a car for this, you know, you're out of your minds. And I, one of the lessons I learned is that you've got to be 100% committed to whatever it is you're doing. If you want to be successful, you cannot take something halfway. And it worked. Because we didn't have a choice. You know, I, my business closed up, I had to I had to make it work. And I, you know, I promised my wife, I said, look, I think I can make a go of this Motorsports thing. I think I can make money doing Motorsports. And we don't really have a lot of other choices. Because the economy's tanked, the construction company we own just tanked. And, you know, I'm going to go in 100%. And I think that's part of it, you got to be 100% committed to whatever it is that you have on your plate or whatever target you're focused on. You got to be all in. If you're not, you're not going to get there. And I will tell you, I've seen that with other endeavors I've had, where I'm kind of half into it, not 100% committed, and it doesn't have the same effect that we had with King of the hammers. The other thing I would say is, it taught me collaboration is key. You know, I practice a lot of the things I hated. With my relationship with Dave, I practice those regularly today, which is getting that collaborative discussion going, which is almost argumentative at times, getting healthy debates going. Today, you know, I've learned to do it with respect, and you leave the emotion out of it back then I wasn't mature enough to set aside a motion and get married to a specific idea, you know, but an example I'll give is, is the LCU. Though Dave came with the idea, the LC Q, I think today, I think was the best thing could have happen to King of the hammers at the time. You know, it? I didn't think so. And we got a pretty good fight over it. And what became of it is what you had, at that time with the CQ it wasn't really Dave's idea. And it wasn't really my idea. It was something that morphed from that argument, where we took bits and pieces out of it and created a really good product, you know, so those are some of the lessons I think I've learned that have helped me along the way with my career path and, and other things in life is good, healthy debate is great. Let your emotions sit aside and and, you know, I'm only disappointed that I didn't learn that younger. Because I I've had some rough rows with some of my partnerships over the years, because I've got let emotion get in the way.

Wyatt Pemberton: 39:05

No, and you're absolutely correct. That will burn you down every time I'll burn you where you stand as soon as you get super emotional, or even a little bit of emotion. But don't get me wrong. I don't want passion to be confused with emotion. I think you know, you use your, your your P word. I have a couple you know, I'd like to use a passion and perspective, you know, was somewhat interchangeably as soon as you lose perspective for whatever you're working on or working on, or working with in as soon as you lose that or you lose passion. It's dead. Like you said, you know what you're remembering, that plays in as well. But when it comes to that emotion, you have to be passionate about it. But there's a place for holding your emotions in check to where your, you know, anger and elation and kind of those check downs. Don't cloud your judgment and We're all we're just human. I mean, we're human. We're all guilty of it. So at the end of the day, when someone does that, when someone gets, you know, shows, you know, anger in front of me about something, or are you I look at that as, wow, they are really passionate about this. I had underestimated their passion for what we're debating or what we're talking about, or what the issue is or what the problem is. I'd under estimated that now, I also still think that, you know, I find that to be immature, I think you've you've got to certainly go down that path of showing the anger there shows immaturity, and I think you even brought that up, like back then I was immature. And I don't know that. Maybe Cody has it at a young age, I didn't have it, I still, I still will get angry about things. And five minutes later, in retrospect, I'm like, God, I'm an idiot.

Unknown: 40:51

Well, the ego certainly plays a part in all of that, right. So that takes a long time, I think, to be able to get your hands around ego, you got to have an ego, if you're going to be involved in motor sports, you know, if you don't, you can't, you can't win, you're not going to be somebody that's going to compete, if you don't have a bit of an ego, it just takes a while to be able to flip the switch and say, Okay, my ego is driving this. And this isn't making bad decisions here. The ego is really the enemy here. Not, not Dave or not Wyatt or not Cody, or whoever, you know, whoever you're debating with, and I actually, in today's world, I crave good debate, I crave it, and it's hard to find people that can you can have a really meaningful, deep discussion with whatever the topic is, to where you can really get, you know, fired up. And then, you know, have a beer together afterwards and still be friends. You know, I've got a friend, I'm not gonna say his name, but he's in the industry. And he challenges me. I mean, I love having conversations with him because he, he challenges me he will say, you know, does that really the way you feel? Did you really? I mean, that's done. Come on, man. really feel that way? Really? And then just go, yeah, you're probably right. I don't really feel that way. Being combative.

Wyatt Pemberton: 42:06

I need to rethink about this will in the day and age will you're not on Facebook, which you know, we'll drop that in there you are on Instagram. But that's even been a flirting conflict between you and social media there. But yeah, not on Facebook. We're today Facebook, if you want to start a fight, man, just keep on your keyboard ran it, you know, it was at least back it felt like in the pirate days, we there would be some fights. But for the most part, there was like a pretty high level of accountability. Even though we had different screen names. It still knew who big burly naked guy was and you still Jeep Recovery Team was we knew each other. And now on Facebook. I mean, anyone that sees me on Facebook, well, I don't use my real name on there. I'm Tripp Nichols, for triple nickel racing. And it came down to just in my neighborhood, my neighborhood is a very, I should say, blue, very blue County. I live in a very blue county and I'm a very Read, read guy and everything can be construed as whatever your perspective is, you sometimes she'll make mountains out of molehills, sometimes they make things out of it's called like reading your horoscope. Right. The horoscope is. Well, it's written to kind of fit everyone. And so when you read it, you're like, oh, they're talking to me? No, they're talking to everybody. It's like a or a fortune cookie. You know, it's it's kind of that like, you can make sure you can make it up to be about you. But it was never it wasn't about you. And and somehow we're in this in this spot in the life of our country where everything is it's not about what's real, and what's fact it's about how it makes people feel. And it's about the feelings.

Unknown: 43:48

Yeah, I miss pirate. I wish we still had that platform. I wish forums were still popular enough that I think that platform lends itself well to those kinds of discussions. I mean, you're not going to have a build thread on Facebook, you're not going to really learn how to shave a 14 bolt on Facebook, but you certainly could on pirate. You know, you could learn how to set up geometry on pirate for suspension system, you're not going to learn that on Facebook, you're not gonna learn on Instagram. It's it's shallow. That's why I don't like the medium. I think it's too shallow. And you know, I learned a while back when I was on pirate that. Keep in mind that, you know, communication requires multiple forms. So you can't just do it in written word. You know, you got to have the tone and you got to have the body language to go with it. Social media is even worse. Social media is these little, you know, two second tidbits of nonsense that you may or may not even see. Because they control the algorithms. At least with pirate you saw everything you wanted to see. You know, it was all there. You could do a search. I don't know. Can you do a search on Facebook?

Wyatt Pemberton: 44:52

I don't think so. Maybe you can read it. It sucks. It's terrible. And then like if you that used to be Hey, I saw that in general four by four. I saw Yesterday, so it's probably if it's not on page one, because it's good stuff, it's probably about on page three, and you knew where to go. Facebook does not work that way at all. Because the algorithms are constantly shuffling and front end loading and waiting, what it wants to show you. So just in probably because you've now seen it or scrolled past it, it gets knocked to the bottom of the algorithm list. And so you probably will never see it again, unless you happen to remember who have your friend list posted, whatever, whatever, whatever. And then you go find their wall. So yeah, it's, but here we are this the world we're in.

Unknown: 45:36

Yeah, when I first started with Lincoln, I used my Facebook as an experimental platform to figure out how I could drive more social reach for torch me. And so it you know, for me, it was a tool I needed to use, I don't manage the social platforms for any of the Lincoln products anymore. We have people that do that. So I don't have to be involved in it. So I'm not, you know, that's that contributed to me leave. And I was I was like, Look, I for me, it was a tool, I could go make experimental posts and see how to get a better reach for myself. And then whatever, I could learn experimenting, I could, you know, apply in business. But today, I don't really have a need for I do miss being able to keep up with people. I think that's the piece that I wish I had more of. But hey, you know, most people know my phone number. And I'm just as guilty, I can pick up the phone and call somebody to which I much prefer over trying to chat with somebody on a I am or Facebook dm or something like that.

Wyatt Pemberton: 46:28

So I'm almost a little bit different than that. I think there's, I'm not unique in this. And basically, don't call me if it's something you can send me in text. Like, I find that phone calls, I will absolutely talk to you. But I find that based on your busy business management as well, between a meeting every 30 minutes all day long, you know, a lunch meeting your My phone is constant, it's either ringing or it's text messages blowing up. Plus, you've got emails, and your multiple emails with multiple, you find yourself in a situation where just being overloaded with touch points. So it's hard to get up from a meeting and go have a phone call. It's hard to walk away from dinner and have a phone call. It's hard to know I think that's probably why like, you know, guys like JT Taylor, Scott Hartman, have, you know, I've had conversations with them just in the past week. And what time did we do it? You know, JT was at like, 1030 last night. And last week when I was talking to Scott, it was 1130 Central time. And so you know, there's this question of, I love those guys. Man, I actually kind of fought for went some sleep to have a conversation with him. That's how that's how important their relationship is to me that if I'm willing to forego sleep to talk to you, you land up there. So I don't know where I was going that but it I do, like being able to reach back and stay in touch with everyone. And, and I've certainly I think it's cool, but I do I do Misil platform. But as I digress, anyway, back in the 80s, I'm gonna go back to you and minifee you've you got into offroad motor sports at a very early age. I think your your dad was into a buggy club. I think you guys spent a lot of time at Glamis. And I think you actually had a job out there if I remember my details kind of correctly on you. How far off on or die just describe somebody else?

Unknown: 48:18

No, no, you're pretty much dead on. I like to tell my kids that I've got an off road pedigree because I been involved and have the luxury of being around some really awesome people through that are off road related. I got my first motorcycle I think 1975 it was one of those little Honda trail trail 50s with the folding handlebars. I don't know if my dad borrowed it from somebody or where he got it. But, you know, I was mobbed and that thing pretty fast and then jumped on my my mom's she had a step through 90 and I was riding that I think when I was six years old, so my parents divorced I want to say around 1980 and my dad was part of the Looney tuners, buggy Club, which spent a lot of time in Glamis. My mom and dad both used to take us to Glamis. When we were kids, we I had a first and RM six Suzuki arm 60 and then a Rm 80. And, you know, a bunch of atcs and things like that. But after my parents divorced my dad ended up marrying my stepmom, no, he who is Chuck Boardman's stepdaughter. So the board Mudville trading post, we were there when it was a single wide trailer out in the middle of the desert. And they used to serve ice cream and, you know, they'd have a couple six packs of beer and a little ice cooler. And you could go you know, out in the desert and refill and add a fuel tank, fuel tank there so you get some gas. And my job was pump gas on all the major holidays all through the winter. So we'd start going out there sometime before Halloween to get the place kind of cleaned up and ready. And I was just there in pump gas every major holiday and most weekends out at Glamis and in trade for that show. He used to let us you know, take some of the vehicles they had there and enjoy ride them so I think I was probably God I don't even know if I was 12 I was probably 10 or 11 years old learning to drive out in the Glamis sand dunes in a Volkswagen bus that had paddle tires on it and bigger engine I think it's probably a 2110 or something in it. They had all the doors off of it in the wind all the glass was out of it. You could pop wheelies in it because it was so light and had a big motor. So my brother would ride shotgun and we would go rip the dunes and a Volkswagen bus you know, pre teenage learning to drive.

Wyatt Pemberton: 50:37

I know nothing about VW is but I think I know this fact and he backed me up on this or not, was it the buses had the strong transmission so everyone was after the bus transit? Yep. Hmm, is it I don't know. Yeah.

Unknown: 50:53

I got to spend a lot of time in Glamis you know through my preteen years ripping around pretty much by myself I you know, I never got lost out there I was able to keep up you know, the keep the chocolate mountains you know on the on your left and that meant you were going home and if they were on your right meant you were going away from home so wasn't too hard for me to go out there a lot of times by myself and go explore. Although I did go out one time with my aunt Kelly. I think she was probably like 19 or 20 and it was the summertime and we had gone out there's nobody in the dunes and I had a pretty bad get off on my dirt bike. And I that was pretty scary because she couldn't help me. I was down to the bottom of a bowl and we couldn't get the bike out of the damn bowl. So eventually it just did a corkscrew and kept riding circles around the bowl to like enough speed to come out of the thing but never really had too much trouble

Wyatt Pemberton: 51:43

almost like a carnival Daredevil right riding around the

Unknown: 51:46

yeah my my aunt Kelly if I remember right, she was famous for wearing like a bikini top and you know cut off shorts. And she was out there in the dunes with no shoes on right in a Honda 185 s in the summertime so she couldn't even get off of the the ATC because she burned her feet in hot sand. So she tied her bandana on or on one foot and I had a bandana on I gave it to her for the other foot she had made some bandanas, sandals or something to be able to come help me.

Wyatt Pemberton: 52:17

So when did you get so you you run around the sand dunes? When did you kind of get into off roading and jeeps and Toyota's in that world

Unknown: 52:26

that was after Angie and I got together so I had a Volkswagen bug in high school that never ran because I'd go out racing it and break it. So Angie would drive me to school every day because I couldn't keep that stupid bug running. And shortly after high school, I sold the bug and I bought a 1985 Xr five Toyota pickup truck it straight axle EFI air conditioning power windows, it was really a it's an a unicorn today. I wish I had that truck today. And that's where we really started four wheel and instead of the sanding stuff, so I had been a member of a bunch of mini truck clubs in high school. So stylin minis was I think the most popular one I was a member of. So it was a lot of mini trucks stuff in high school. But there were these guys that I can't remember the name of their club but they had these big jacked up trucks. And I just thought that was cool. That's what I plan to do with this Toyota pickup truck was jack it up and you know go do the mini truck club thing but but I don't have enough money as a poor guy. So I didn't have the money to lift it. So we just ended up learning how to four wheel drive and I met Greg javonni from Safari guard fame. He later went on to be the D 90 guy, the defender fabricator guy and a gentleman named Roy do who is still a good friend today. We used to call him rollover Roy and the three of us kind of taught each other how to go for a Whelan and go trail riding and then eventually turned into more extreme stuff.

Wyatt Pemberton: 53:58

So is that like your incarnation as a Toyota guy? Cuz I think you're a Jeep guy.

Unknown: 54:03

Yeah, I'm a Jeep guy. So I still like Toyotas a lot. The Toyota I had for about at F das gangee. But I think we only had the Toyota for about eight months because it got stolen. The bummer of it is is that I was actually living in the Toyota at the time that it got stolen. So I was Van lysing before van life was cool. It had a camper shell on it and I was living in the back of my Toyota going between Riverside to see Angie and working up in Ventura. So I basically lived in the parking lot of the Ventura Yacht Club. And would you use the bathrooms for the liveaboards I had a key for the liveaboards that I use the shower in the bathrooms in the live you know live aboard area and lived in my Toyota. And when it got stolen it was a bummer because it not only did I lose all my tools and all my clothes, I lost my house too. So it was a free sketchy time to not have a place to live and and thankfully my Barbara took me in and Angie and I got a personal loan and we bought our first Jeep which was I think we paid 2000 bucks for it and it was a 79 cJ five. We actually got married. We left our wedding in that Jeep.

Wyatt Pemberton: 55:13

You know where that thing is today? Not a clue. I'd be shocked if you did the vehicle I remember you haven't as you had a Chevrolet standard cab stepside for drive. It was like silver gray, but it was sunbaked like the tops of the rails seemed that's what my memory and it had a with a like Alcoa's or mags it had some some pre pre decent aluminum wheels on it. That's the truck I remember you haven't.

Unknown: 55:41

I've had a few of those trucks that truck that truck was actually Angie's truck. Funny story she wanted when we got the ranch in Menifee, she wanted a ranch truck. And what she wanted was like a 69 Chevy, half ton four wheel drive, you know, good redneck truck and but we couldn't find one for a decent price. So we found this gray battleship gray long bed three quarter ton I want to say it was like a 78 or 77. And she she owned it like three days and she got t boned by a driver in the Hemet and just absolutely destroyed the truck. Thankfully she walked away because it was you know, big heavy truck and a car hit it. And so we didn't have full coverage insurance. So I basically her dad was a heavy collision mechanic for years. We straighten the frame on it, tossed the bed, and I threw those big tires and wheels on it. I don't remember where I got them. We used to wheel the crap out of that thing with no bed on it. It was fun. It was just a beater truck. I'd take it down to the TDs Safari. I think one time I put a couch on the back of it and I slept on the couch and we'd go wheel the notches in that big truck. But we owned a few full size Chevy's I like those trucks and we were trying to think about how many jeeps we owned the other day. I think we owned about 2025 jeeps through the through our marriage. So I don't have any jeeps right now except my wife's

Wyatt Pemberton: 57:01

Grand Cherokee. And your so maybe that's the secret to secret to your marriage is that you guys if you can survive Jeep ownership, you can survive anything.

Unknown: 57:11

Maybe I mean, the kids grew up in the back of a Jeep Trina, my, I took her out when she was really small. I don't remember how old she was. But I don't know if she was even a year old. Maybe she was a year old. And she wore all the hair off the back of her head because it was sliding back and forth on the car. So she had a big bald spot when I brought her home family wasn't too pleased with me about that. But trade has been wheeling since she was really small.

Wyatt Pemberton: 57:38

So when in there Did you guys have a you know, when you started hosting rock comps at a no Ranch,

Unknown: 57:44

I want to say around the winter of 99, or the first part of 2000. My brother and I went to the ark event out at Johnson Valley. I think it was a Walmart nationals. And we took I think we took our kids with us. And they kept telling us we had to move we were on the course and we're like we don't even know we're on the course like where is the course there are people everywhere. And it was cold and windy. My brother and I were sitting on a rock and saying, you know talking about all the things that were wrong with this rock crawling sport, you know, because we've always said, Hey, if they can make this a sport, we're gonna compete. We didn't understand it at all. It was like golf, you know, we just didn't get it. And we sat there and we're talking about, you know, it'd be a lot more easy to understand if they just put a time on it and told you to go through as fast as you could go through and a hell of a lot more entertaining than the subjective 1001 1002 1003 stop, you know, like point you're like, what the hell this guy's counting faster than that guy? You know, how is that even fair? It's completely subjective. You know, we just didn't think it was a good format. So one of those parties that we're talking about, we said, Hey, we're gonna have a rock racing event. I built a little course, at the race at the track. I mean, excuse me at the ranch. And I think we had maybe five people show up. We kind of I guess you could say that was our proof of concept. Everybody had a good time and loved it. So we just expanded it and scaled it up and turned it into crca.

Wyatt Pemberton: 59:19

So talk about crca real quick.

Unknown: 59:21

So crca was we only did it I think for three years, maybe four years. And we did it we actually did at the wooden nickel ranch next to the ranch next door to ours because we outgrew our ranch pretty fast. We did the first two events at our ranch. And then we rented out the wooden nickel ranch because they had better rocks. And so our whole thing was it was a rock race, straight up rock race very much like zarei but we tried to make it entertaining. So we had announcers Leslie Robbins was one of our announcers and she just knew so much about the drivers back then she would do a lot of research. She would talk About the drivers, and we had music going. So it was like a rock concert. And you could pretty much see the whole course, from the spectator. We actually had some bleachers at one time, we had a few rows of bleachers, you could sit on the bleachers, and and watch it. And, you know, I think our claim to fame was that everybody talks about tiny and the shot heard around the world and how they changed the world with that, that air cooled Volkswagen Rock Crawler, but that actually competed at a crca event. For the first the first time they used it. They competed our event. So john Bundoran brought it out. I think he might have blown up the engine or something with it, because the course was they weren't prepared for the thing to overheat. But oh, he raced with us first.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:00:43

Well, you know, you're talking about the Female Announcer you brought somebody earlier that I hadn't heard her name in a long time was Carrie Steiner, and Carrie, was she the first female rock racer, or first female competitor? kayo. Ah, yeah. For king of the hammers. Yes. Yes. Yeah. How she today.

Unknown: 1:01:03

She's great. She lives up in Montana. She's currently on an expedition in Alaska and an RV she she bought a class CRV and she lifted it and put a locker in it change the gear ratio, put big tires on it big bumpers, and she's up driving around in Alaska right now.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:01:20

How fun is that? Okay, sorry that Tanja I made a mental note. You brought it up. And then I you know, oh, squirrel and I got off track. So you guys are put on stuff. You know, the rock crawl events. They're around your place in Menifee, you met Dave coletta crca event. So I do remember that portion. But you get involved in by the time I end up running around with you and like oh nine, you had been involved in some desert racing like you had? I think you didn't get involved maybe and and the reason why I say is is because you had told me how you guys would practice like tire changes and thrown the lug nuts away. And I think that was with pflugers team. Yeah, tell me if I skipped a couple chapters here in the Jeff no life of Motorsports. You there was Jeep speeds. I want to talk about the 3000 car stuff because I found that to be really fascinating when I came out to visit you guys that first time in oh nine but how did you end up involved in in the desert scene going from rock crawling into desert stuff? Because at the time there wasn't a middle ground there wasn't this for Dr. middle ground.

Unknown: 1:02:24

So Bart Dixon, who's probably one of my best friends, if not my best friend introduced me to Alan Pflueger, Bart and Alan actually went to dealer school together. And so they were friends. And Alan, the truck was still red, white and blue. Invited Bart, because he did Bart had these, you know, rock crawlers and said, Hey, can you come down and bring this rock crawler because we want somebody in metonymy wash. We need somebody that can get to us if we have a problem. So Bart, you know, said, Hey, Jeff, you want to do this? And I'm like, heck, yes, I want to do it. That sounds great. So we started, that's pretty much our job is to get into the nastiest places possible pre run those areas in advance. So we understood not only the course, but how do we get in and out without being on the course if somebody needs something. And then we try to post up at the, at any spot where we thought Alan might have difficulty, which was usually a tummy wash. And you know, most of the time, it was just fly by visual of the car, everything looks great, cool. You know, we just spent two days pre running. And you just went by and you know, in 25 minutes when you're out of our range, we can crack beers and have a good time. The downside of that is that it usually took us so long to get back. We didn't we didn't usually get to celebrate with the team at the finish line. Because you know, we'd be out in the middle of nowhere. So that's how I got involved with bluger. And then, you know, when they they'd signed up monster, fun story, Bart, maybe a little embarrassed by this, but Bart and I showed up in in sanada at the coral hotel. And typically when we would get we'd show up the team would you know they wouldn't be in the parking lot. They'd be everything would be locked up and they'd be doing their thing in the hotel. But this the first year with monster everybody was in the parking lot. And I kind of thought that was odd. And one of the team guys comes running up with this two cases of this Monster Energy Drink and he says, Hey, we just landed this new sponsor for this new soda pop. You got to try it. It's amazing. Well, they're all drinking monster. They're all fired up. That's why nobody was in the hotel resting because they're all amped out on monster. So we didn't know any better. We just I'm like, Man, this stuff tastes great. Bart has one I have another one. Bart has another one and around 11 o'clock at night midnight. I'm like, hey, Bart. I'm feeling really good. We got to be in San Felipe Bay tomorrow morning. Let's just go to San Felipe Bay The Night March like heck yes, we're going to San Felipe Bay. So we throw our Monster Energy Drink in the backseat. I think we cracked a few more. We drive to San Felipe Bay. We get to the military checkpoint and there's it's the middle of the night. It's like, you know, one in the morning, there's nobody there. And they had told us that like, just give Monster Energy Drink to everybody, you, anybody and everybody just give it away. That's what we got it for. That's what monster wants us to do. Well, they want me to get hooked on it is what they want. But, you know, we give a couple monsters to the federal rallies man in the military guys at the checkpoint, that we end up hanging out with those guys for like half an hour, 45 minutes drinking Monster Energy and chatting with them. And so we went on to San Felipe Bay and our room was absolutely terrible. And we found a guy that we said, Hey, if you'll watch the Jeep, you can drink it. You can drink all the beer you want. It's in the cooler. And we got these Monster Energy drinks. You can drink as much as you want. There's waters but just watch the G pours tonight make sure Nobody messes with it. So Bart and I come out after you know trying to sleep to go do our pre running. And the dude is sitting in the jeep. He's got the headsets on and he's like driving. He's just like, you know, making noises and driving it and there's like five empty monster can sit outside the jeep. So he's just completely wired on monster hook them. We just did great times down there.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:06:12

So was that with a flute? Or was that your first for a south of the border? in Baja?

Unknown: 1:06:17

No, my parents used to take me down to Canada, Canada. And I think it's called just south of Rosarito. The sand dunes there. We used to go down there with the mograph family and say, I can't remember the name of it. It wasn't kind of Vienna, but we would stay down there and ride in the sand dunes. And I think these devil motorcycle race down there, we would go down there to watch in the 70s.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:06:39

So going from the trophy truck team working with the flying Hawaiian. You got your flange up or you knew how did you how did you end up meeting or knowing Jim Knox? Man? That's a good question. Right. I I met Jim through either through fo JV That's what I think.

Unknown: 1:06:58

or somehow through dust junkies, or through Wayne israelson. I you know, honestly, I don't know because it's a Blur.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:07:07

Blur? Well, so yeah, who was the car? You know, he raced a class one at the time. And I remember it was there was there's like three of them and they had a very specific Look who built those. Do you remember Carl Scanlon Scanlon, that's what it was. And then that's how we ended up segwayed into talking about the 3000s. So how did the class 3000 thing come to be? And you end up involved in that because you are now racing with a helmet on and your your racing class? 3000. Right. That's what I really yeah.

Unknown: 1:07:41

Yeah. So after racing, Jeep speed, I think we might have, I think we won a few races. The mograph family actually introduced me to Carl Scanlon. And because they were friends with him there in Menifee, and he was building a team. He was a heavy equipment, contractor. And you know, 2008, everything was shut down. He didn't really have anything to do. And so he decides he's going to build the race team. So he builds three of those cars. Desert dynamics, I think built those cars. And he had a guy prepping them. And he would put, you know, try to put people in the car to find out a good race team. So Jeremy actually raced a race with Jeremy, in those class 3000 cars at Glen Helen one time, had a blast co driving with Jeremy and was able to race one of them myself at Glen Helen, which is probably about the funnest time I've ever had. I raced against Jeremy, maybe like the second time we raced up, there was just a lot of fun, good, good, clean, fun. And those are great little cars, they're faster than they look. When you're in the car. The one thing I that taught me racing in those little 3000 cars is you know, you always hear people say oh, give me a trophy truck and I'll be that fast. No chance in hell. You know, you really got to work your way up. Because you there's no you can't handle it. I mean, that was the fastest thing I've ever driven and I stuffs going by you like so fast. You don't have the reaction time you don't have time to think about a GE out, you know, you don't see it coming you better know it's there. You better know where everything is. So you better figure out how you're going to motor through it. Do not lift because that's a recipe for disaster.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:09:24

Yeah, when in doubt, throttle out right this pin pin it in it and let it do its thing. So I did then I got those things out of order in my head. You got involved in Jeep speed with Hartman and the the florist the flower brothers go through that. Like I know, Lance was involved in Jeep speed for a while was Shaffer, you know, Mike Shaffer up there. He was in Mountain House at the time now he's out in the Bay Area. But that was kind of the the the era where Jeep speeds were a thing.

Unknown: 1:09:54

Yeah, a lot of great racers started and G speed. It's a good platform. It's fairly inexpensive. deterring all things considering if you want to win, you're going to certainly spend some money. But I got involved with Jeep speed with Hartman. I think Bob, a gentleman named Bob Greene is the person that kind of got there was the catalyst if you will on Jeep holics, calm and a lot of discussion about building a Jeep speed and going to race Jeep speed. And I think ultimately, what we ended up deciding was we were going to build a TJ, we built the first TJ Jeep speed. So I worked with Clive Skelton to try to get that allowed in Jeep speed and then Hartman, Mark Underwood, and Quinn moss Colts, the four of us went in on the Jeep speed. It was a I think it was Mark Underwood's wife's Jeep or something that we converted. So we had four partners in the deal a whole bunch of friends turning wrenches at my my ranch, I think might have had a dirt floor at the time or maybe had gotten the concrete by then, you know, working nights and weekends and everything we could to get that thing together to go race at Parker putting, I think we were still working on the car and the trailer on the way there and working on the car, certainly in the contingency line, Mark Underwood, because he had owned the gap drew the straw to drive it first. And jack Graff from ctm was his co driver. And I don't know if they made it 13 miles and blew up the engine. Scott Hartman could probably tell you what, what was wrong with it, there was something that didn't get done right, or something that happened, but it didn't go very far. And we were all very disappointed. But I'll tell you, it took us pretty much the whole season to iron out the bugs and people left, you know, Mark, I think we bought mark out right away. And then and then Quinn left shortly thereafter. So it just got my we worked out the bugs throughout the year. I you know, we had some decent finishes. But I wouldn't suggest anything great. We've had some DNF since that first year. But by the end of the season, the Henderson race, which you know, I don't know, maybe five races later, we handedly won that race. And after that there was really no stop. And that team, I would tell you, it's more than the car. It's the team. You know, the team by then dust junkies racing, which you know, is morphed into something entirely different. But but but by that last race, we knew how to pit correctly, we were super fast in the pits. The car was fast, we had it dialed in our prep package was good. RJ Rainey was was prepping the car. And you know, it's expensive if you want to win and Jeep speed, because the rules are pretty tight. And if he ain't trying, so you try to shave everything you can for an advantage. And you know, Ray Griffith, who is I think one of the under appreciated drivers. And in desert racing, he was racing with us at the time, I can't remember the names of some of the other folks and the fortune was racing with this at the time. And, and I remember Griffin and the fortune and I were on a dry lake bed with just wooding the cars. I mean, there was nothing left the cars had. And they were so evenly matched that they I mean for miles across the dry lake bed, we were just three wide going exactly the same speed. So I mean, that's close racing. It's really close racing. And I like that kind of racing because you got to be smart about it. It's it's your team that's going to get you there. And it's it's your preparation and you know, knowing the course and having the notes doing all the homework that wins those races. It's not just about the guy in the driver's seat.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:13:32

No, actually, I think it is. Yeah, well something about the the guy that our receipts like what uh, what they tried to do with the Iraq series, right, it was all match cars. And it came down to the driver right, who was the better driver and I think you got it. You got the opportunity to see that or in who was the better team in visa desert, but Oh, yeah, Ray Griffith rageous. One, he just he just wanted an event somewhere. might have been the 250. He just wants something recently, though, but I liked a party with him one time in Lake Havasu and couldn't keep up the not even close because we were racing class one and you end up hanging out with some other class one guys and he was one of them. We party with a regular guy? Yeah. So kind of going along that path. You You did Jeep speed then then the class 3000s came? I met you now I can't I was at qH on nine but I don't recall us meeting like I you know, it's your you were putting on an event. And

Unknown: 1:14:33

yeah, it's not fair. People come up to me and say, you know, they would say oh, I met you king of the hammers. I'm like man, I probably met 6000 people at King of the hammers. I can't process all that true. Sorry, but I don't remember you.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:14:48

So you you pick me up in oh nine for Vegas, Reno and I go we end up going to dads and then some circling back to where that story goes. I've told the story before on the show and it's we spent I'm working with BSI and putting his his car together you and the OSI teamed up on the s&m fab car. I think that car later burned if I'm correct. Yeah, it's That's correct. It's back together. It lives again. Is that the one that's nicknamed Christine?

Unknown: 1:15:16

I have no idea. I don't think so. But I could, who knows, I just know that it runs against somebody put it back together.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:15:22

So we go, we go to Las Vegas, and we're at the station, one of the station casinos. And in Henderson, you walk up to the best in the desert reservation table, checking table, and it's RJ Brown, Chris, poke myself in you. And you lay down this packet. And you pull out all the paperwork for best in the desert. And this is the this is the first registering of a 4400. This is the 4400 class and the first registration of it. How cool was that?

Unknown: 1:15:57

It was it was really cool. But I will tell you, the stuff that led up to that was way cooler for me, working closely with Casey, on getting the rules adopted and getting the class and having the interaction with him. He was a fantastic promoter. I was at the Hall of Fame offroad Motorsports Hall of Fame dinner once and I was in line behind him. He turned to somebody I don't remember who he turned and he says, I want to introduce you to the greatest promoter in the United States. And he introduced me, and I just was like, taken back. I said, Casey, you know, that's not me, man. That's you. And he goes, Nah, man, you guys created something entirely new. It's crazy what you guys have done. So I just, I really admired him. I know he was rough and tumble guy. But I really liked him and the opportunity to work with him and Diane leading up to that race and for him to have the you know, to believe in these idiot rock crawlers, or these rock donkeys or whatever you want to call it. We're going to come out and try to race their their clapped out junk across the desert for three days. This fantastic time. I mean, we're just so blessed to have worked with people like him.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:17:09

He throw out a boo Yeah, in there. Yeah, for sure.

Unknown: 1:17:13

Now, for sure, he might have called me a whistle something or another but right.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:17:19

This was the time this era that we're talking about was when people laughed. I mean, just absolutely laughed at us. You know, and I've told this story a billion times because it's it's a vivid memory was seen Andy McMillan and he was he was very young at the time. And but he was still a trophy truck driver and, and him pointing and laughing at the rock cars and, and we were you know, there was always this, you know, there was a saying like, you'll if you guys could ever be faster than a Jeep speed. Maybe you'll have something. Yeah. And now Yeah,

Unknown: 1:17:52

well, we're we're at it's tenacity. You know, that's what it is. It's tenacity. Like I said, a while back, it's people believing in it and and making it happen. And keep pushing it pushing it my favorite t shirt. I really enjoyed all the T shirts we made. That's a piece that I was heavily involved in. My favorite t shirt of King of the hammers of all time is the one that says that just happened. You got passed by a rock crawler. I love that one. And that's we did that specifically for that event, you know, where it's like, we know we're going to pass some of them we know I mean, I was racing Jeep speed. I knew I knew for no doubt in my mind that ultra for car could be faster than a Jeep speed. Maybe not off the start. Maybe not when we first got him going. But there's no way it couldn't be it was unlimited. Yeah, you know, eventually was going to happen.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:18:42

And now they're way up there. But yeah, so Casey, folks, I don't remember which event it was, but it was, it's the best in the desert. Casey's talking to me. He's like, he's like, oh, what class are you? Am I you know, 4400 but I was I was racing up in class one at the time. And he goes, he is Oh, are you Nick Nelson. And I am not Nick Nelson. He goes, Oh, well, Nick Nelson came to Parker last year, man. He just put on a clinic. If you were Nick Nelson, I think you I have to shake your hand like he just taught me. And I'm standing there like, Yeah, man. I'm not not that fast. Yeah, yeah. Did he Mickey gone to the blue water? I think Shannon Campbell gone there. I think it been a beer as well. I feel like it was the three of them together. And Nick. Yeah, Nick, Nick, put on a clinic in Jimmy's car that he had at the time. But and I won't say maybe this was the May does the blue water challenge. I showed up. But the next parkour event, the 425, which would be in five months later in the next racing season, but it is anyway as we kind of work through that. So you had worked on like a class 3000 rule book and now you've worked on the 4400 rule book. You register the thing we race it man we had a good time. Our car didn't do that great. Certainly told the story about me pulling the radiator cap off the car at one of the pits on day one and, and boy told that story a few times. Yeah. Because that's the worst. Because Well, it makes me look human right? Like, I am human, but it also makes me look very fallible, right, I grab a radiator cap, knowing full well it's hot and throw it open and it's not that the water came out it was the urine came out. Ha boiling piss all over everything. So yeah, that's what we were talking about before. The before the show, you know, offline like, maybe it's time for the talent tanking these stories in ultra foreign developed to the point where, you know, they're bigger, the whole thing's bigger than me, right? It's it's currently why it's still, you know, this is the 50th show. This is the 50th big episode and maybe, you know, it's like Johnny Carson, he hung it up and and let Jay Leno come in. Maybe I gotta find I've got to find who that limo is right or, or for limo to find Fallon. Like we've got to, you know, I know there's somebody younger with the new stories. You mean all these guys are making stories at just breakneck pace. Let's Usher them in with this next day. I'd like to be the one to be able to get in my truck in the morning and drive to work and listen to the talent tank and hear someone else carrying the torch. I would I think that'd be I think that'd be pretty cool. But

Unknown: 1:21:28

yeah, I had lunch this week with a friend of mine who's a promoter was was a promoter for motocross. You know, I asked him I said, you know, what do you do in these days, you do promotions, and we're friendly, I spent a lot of time with him. And we got on the subject to promotions. And he said, you know, what I really enjoy is that I show up to the track in my spare van, I wheel out my dirt bike, I go pay my $35. And I signed my waiver, I put my helmet on, and I go rip the track for two, three hours. And then I go home. He's like, I don't need to be the promoter anymore. I just want to eat is I've been given my entire life to the sport, I want to take a little while and I think he's like 54. And the guy shreds on a bike still. I mean, he needs to go racing, that he enjoys getting something back. You know, he's he feels like he's did his he's done his part. So there was no harm no foul in that you want to be able to make your contribution and and then sit back and let somebody else drive for a while.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:22:27

Yes, I think there's there's that and we're certainly you know, this whole episode here we're talking about you and your mark that you've put on kicking the hammer star racing ultra for racing, 4400 class racing, what you didn't used to be 3000. But I want to talk about the future. And why we are where we are today doing what we're doing today because of your philanthropy. And that's the stance that you took, you know, with friends at Johnson Valley, when you know, the Marines were looking to take over at one point you end up testifying in front of Congress, I remember sitting at my desk at my office in downtown Houston, with the c span on watching, you know, your testimony representing the offer community, walk through that your perspective on that. And in that time of life, where we look to lose our hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of acres to recreation. And you were one of the guys at the table leading the charge on saving,

Unknown: 1:23:28

I kind of ended up. You know, I don't even know how I ended up in that spot. To be honest with you, I will tell you that when I left king of the hammers, as shocked as everybody else was I was a little bit in shock too, because I had put together a plan to buy king of the hammers and you know, go do king of the hammers, and so king of the hammers ends. And I don't have a job I don't have I don't have a plan. I don't really know what my next move is. But when the base expansion started to heat up, kind of felt like okay, this is my thing. I made money off of Johnson Valley. I made money off the industry. Maybe I can give some of that back. And, you know, even though I don't need to protect king of the hammers from a business standpoint, I felt I needed to protect Johnson Valley from a recreational standpoint. You know, one of the reasons the race was always on a Friday was because we were terribly concerned that some, you know, nine year old, you know, 1979 version of Jeff in the present, was going to get hit by a racer, just out there with his parents cruising around his dirt bike. So we always felt like, let's pick a time of year when the weather's not so good. And let's pick a day when you know, people can swing get a Friday off to come out and check it out. But we don't want a kid to get hurt. And so I've always felt a connection to that and I just felt like, Okay, this is what I need to do is get involved in this. And I, you know, the organizations, they all work really hard. The associations there, God bless them, right? It's a thankless job, but they don't approach this with like the mindset of a business. They're volunteers typically, a lot of times, they're, they're retired folks, or they do it on the side, because they're super passionate about. And my approach was, we got to, we got to break the mold, and orba kind of presented that opportunity we, you know, to work with businesses, and look at this a little differently. I remember I was with Mike lasher, out at Glamis north, which is a kayo, a campground with hot springs, sitting in his RV, everybody was out drinking and having a good time in the hot springs. And I was sitting in the RV, right in this white paper. And, you know, I got the book that explained what that battalion training was, I was able to download it. And it was a I mean, it was a lot of reading. And I read the whole thing, I think I read the whole thing two or three times, I got to give a shout out to Kevin Kerry, because Kevin Kerry was the guy that I would call and say, what's this acronym mean? What is this? Like? I don't know, what mechanized battalion training is, what is that? Actually? What is it? And Kevin would just spend hours explaining all this stuff, because he was in the military. And he he understood it. And so he would dissect it all for me and tell me what it meant. And then I would try to wrap my head around. Okay, what's the plan? What could we do that could couldn't make this work? And so I wrote that white paper, I think it was called common ground. That was kind of our idea collectively, for how can we make this work. And ultimately, Common Ground turned into the basis for representative cooks, bill that he submitted. So a lot of work, a lot of people involved a lot of money, will ultimately we were able to hire one of the top lobbying firms for military in Washington, DC, I have no idea how they agreed to do it, but they did, I have no idea how we paid for it. But we did. And the whole community really rallied around this idea that we're gonna take a new approach, we're gonna, we're gonna explain that, you know, this is an economic impact that we're having on the community by being out there. And if you take that away, the community is not going to get that revenue. And I'm pretty proud of the fact that handful of people on pirate four by four, created an economic impact study collected data from all over the world using pirate, we put that into a document and that documents in the Library of Congress. that's a that's a legitimate document that was created by a group of people that just believed in it.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:27:43

Was that also the the genesis of the the blue star? I think it may have been Yeah, that's a question for Lance. But I think so. Did you work with Don Raul on that? Was she involved there? Because I think I'd heard stories that she was that I have never talked to dawn.

Unknown: 1:27:59

Dawn came in a bit later. So representative cook wasn't even in office, when we started orba. We were actually i can't i think the guy's name was like, IMS, or something like that. There were two candidates, because the previous representative who was in forever, they represented the area was retiring. So they had an opening, both the Democratic and Republican were running their game, and we were lobbying both of them. You know, a lot of times when you're trying to save land, you need to spend more time lobbying the Democrats, as you've probably already got the Republicans. And so I think there's a misunderstanding that, you know, some of the money that gets spent or the networking that happens, you know, somebody may snap a photo of an advocate, that's, you know, with like a Dianne Feinstein or a Barbara Boxer or something that's taken the wrong way. But that's really where you have to focus your energy. You've got to focus your energy energy in those places. We spent a lot of time in Feinstein's office, working with our staff to try to get her support for this because we knew we'd have the Republican support, which we did. You know, we had McCarthy wrapped up that's in orbit, as you know, hometown Bakersfield, Fred's got a relationship with him. We didn't have to go lobbying McCarthy, we knew we were going to get his support. We just had to put a good plan together, you need that bipartisan support. And sometimes that takes you got across the aisle and go work on the democrat side. We can't do that if you're not respectful and can't go in there like a bull in a china shop. And that's, I think that's unfortunately, one of the problems we have with our land use advocacy groups is they're so hardcore, conservative and Republican. And then sometimes they come off as combative, you've got to find common ground and you've got to be able to work across the aisle as

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:29:45

well and you need to get out of your own echo chamber. Right? If you're if you're just want to talk to those that are already on your side, you're never gonna have that opportunity to either convince somebody to move their stance or they're not gonna convince you to move your state.

Unknown: 1:30:00

Yeah, yeah, I think the tipping point for us was really getting the lobbyist on board and getting them to commit and having that expertise. They had military expertise that took what we had to the next level. You know, they looked at the plan and said, this makes a lot of sense. We think we can get this done. But we got to do some tweaking. They certainly did. They didn't let us down. And I think it was good money. I will tell you, for your listeners out there, I would challenge them. The thing that I'm disappointed in is that we set a precedent with the save the hammers, we set the precedents that we created the first congressionally designated o h v area. And I don't think people quite understand what that means. That's like creating a wilderness area. It's congressionally designated. The only way that that can change is by Congress. And there's a precedence. And I have not seen yet one other effort to create another congressionally designated Oh hv area, anywhere in the United States. And we missed a golden opportunity with Trump, that we could have done that, you know, pick a place, I don't care where you go, pick a place and protect it. Otherwise, we're going to keep being on the defense all the time. You know, the thing with Oceana, I'm glad there's people more passionate than I am about Oceana, because I wouldn't fight that fight. That's going to cost a lot of money. We've been in that battle for as long as my entire life we've been in that battle. with keeping Oceana open to hv, and we spent a lot of effort, we spent a lot of money to be able to keep that place. And my hat's off to the people that keep fighting that good fight. But I don't have it in me to fight the same fight for 50 years. You know, I'd like for us to go on the offense. And that's one of the reasons I haven't played nicely with some of the association's is that I don't like being on defense. And sometimes defense is better for them, because they can raise more money, but we need to go get on offense, and we need to go get what's ours, protected.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:31:56

I fully agree with every single word you just said, there. That's the sad reality of where we're at here. And for those of us in the non western states where we don't have public land the way the western states do, we really don't understand it or grasp it. You know, if we want to do an event, it's you've got to talk to the landowner after landowner after landowner to put it together. And it doesn't make sense to us, right? We're like it. And then if you go to you flying to Vegas, and you get off the plane, and you see as you get asked city limits, you're like, you look around and like Wow, you guys just just all recreation for you. Yeah, for the most part, it's just not that way. And in the Eastern State. So to get support outside of San Bernardino County, is rough. Right? Yeah, yeah. And the other thing is, since I'm on my soapbox, I love it keep going is, you know,

Unknown: 1:32:46

if you want to fight these fights, you got to pay people, you know, I feel like I've done my fair share, I've invested my money, you know that that was pretty much my job for better part of a year and I, you know, didn't get really get paid for it, you know, I reinvested because I felt passionate about it, but I can't do that over and over again, I can't, you know, I can't put I don't want to go live in a single wide or something. So I can just be the land use guy. You know, we don't, we just don't, I don't know, if we it's not that we don't value those people enough that we just don't, we're not attracting the right talent, because we're not willing to pay them. If you want to volunteer to do the work, you're going to get volunteer results.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:33:27

I think a fair state will hire some people. And I think that's a fair statement to make, not just in land use, but pretty much in anything in life. Right? If you want somebody to give it to you for nothing, there's gonna be valued at nothing. That's pretty simple. Now, don't get me wrong, I will say that, you know, like King of the hammers doesn't go on without a lot of volunteerism, like, that event itself does not get pulled off with that a lot of volunteerism, and kudos to all those people that volunteer, I mean, that it doesn't happen that way. But on a long term, regular basis of consistently asking for volunteers, man, they fit in where they can, but you know, between lives and work and lives and kids and events, you know, it's it's hard to find those dedicated people, unless they are, you know, able to feed their family out of that.

Unknown: 1:34:19

Yeah. And they got to get a decent wage, right? Because it's, in my case, I was with orba. I don't know how many years, three or four years and, you know, they paid me what they could, but, you know, they're not going to pay me what Lincoln pays me. And I'm not going to have the security that I have working at Lincoln Electric. You know, that's one of the great things about a job is you you go get a job that pays you well and has it has benefits that you're happy with and a security level that meets your needs. But if you're going to go go be the land use guy or land use advocate, man, you don't you don't know where your next paycheck is going to come from

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:34:56

most the time and you like to be a punching bag. For yeah For both sides,

Unknown: 1:35:01

yeah, for both sides, you're gonna get it from your own people. I think that's the most disappointing thing that came out of the save the hammers thing that really depressed me, and made me withdraw is that there were people inside of our own organization industry that were telling me I was a sellout, I gave up no grain of sand. Like, you know, you sold us out, and some pretty angry people. For a while I was like, I'll just never even go back to the hammers again, I was so disappointed in some of that. But the reality is, is that mark Matthews and I, we had our favorite area of King of the hammers there, you know, knocking hammers, but our favorite areas of the hammers, Johnson Valley. And that's in the base now. And I gave up my personal favorite area of Johnson Valley to save the traditional hammers trails, because I knew that 90% of the people never going to go where Mark Matthews and I would go, they're not going to go out there.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:35:57

That's the sad reality. But it's not the compromises best, right? Sometimes, you know, if you compromise, if you're if you're stuck on the set of road tracks, and you compromise, right, your choices are to stay on the road tracks and get hit or get off the road tracks and not you hit Well, if you compromise, you're still half on the railroad tracks, you're still gonna get hit. And so compromise isn't always the best thing. But damn, man, I mean, it's hard. And I absolutely see how you were in the shooting gallery for for compromise. And that's been the the thing for me being outside looking in on what I've seen out of the West organizations is the infighting. It's counterproductive. And I don't know that I'm not exhausting.

Unknown: 1:36:37

Yeah, it's exhausting. Well, what would you say your analogy with the train is, it depends who you're compromising with. Because if you compromise with the train, then it might be okay to get halfway off the tracks. Because you know, if you can get him to either slow down or stop, then might be okay.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:36:54

That's why we're having a conversation, because that's a completely different perspective. I've never pondered on that analogy. depends on who you're negotiating with. Yeah, see, there you go outside the box. Alright, so we're charging towards the finish here, I've got a couple more things that I want to make sure I get get out. One of the things I like to go into is kind of your advice for younger racers coming in, or sponsors or kind of that medium of interaction of the the changing hands of dollars in parts in the racing community. And I know you have an interesting perspective on this. And I actually shared a lot of this. But what you have witnessed being at a very large corporate, that does do a lot of sponsorships that you guys have, you know that you've had this ghosting issue, and elaborate on that, and how Why do you think that is happening in the sponsor space? Where do you think that we need to go to alleviate it?

Unknown: 1:37:53

I don't know the answer to the question. I will tell you that. It's an issue. I think it stems back to back to that perception. I think it's perception of people that are getting into racing, that you have to have sponsors. And you don't you can have a plain white Rapper Car, that the king of the hammers you don't have, it's not a prerequisite to race to have a sponsor on the side of your car. And I think people get the wrong impression that they got to go get sponsors, and then build the race car. The race proposals, don't make it to my desk anymore. But I used to get them. They're highly vetted by the time they get to my desk. They're pretty good. And I will tell you, we can have a separate conversation about, you know, execution of those proposals. But you know, I used to get around October, I'd start getting proposals from people that I have no idea who these people are telling me how they're going to build a car, race and King of the hammers, and when King of the hammers, and I should give them money or products, because they're going to put my name on the side of the car. First off, know your audience, do some due diligence, understand who the right person is. And the decision maker is. Those people should have known that the guy that they're trying to, you know, pitch was the co founder of King of the hammers, and I know damn, well, there's like five or six guys in the world that can win king of the hammers at that time. You're not going to come in there and win it. It's impossible. You know, there could be a dark horse like Lauren Healy, Lauren Healy had his shit together. The guy knew how to drive. He had a good car in a good team behind him. He knew what you know, he knew how to make it happen. You're gonna go build a car in like three months and tell me you're gonna win the king of the hammers. No way. Thank

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:39:36

you. You are Shannon Campbell.

Unknown: 1:39:38

Right, there's not this is not gonna happen. So know your audience, I think is a big thing. And I'll tell you from my perspective, and I'm not speaking for Lincoln here, I want to make sure I disclose that that this is just Jeff's opinion, not Lincoln electrics opinion. You got to understand what the company needs, you know, a welding company like Lincoln lectric may not need their name on the side of a race car. People know who they are. They, you know, they may not want their name on the race car, because there's liability if you hit somebody, they're gonna sue everybody on that race car. So you need to understand, how can you provide value to the person you're pitching. And in the case of someone like a Lincoln Electric, and I'm just using them as an example, you know, content creation, using their products happens in the months before the race, you know, you don't have to go out and fight for media attention. At a race where everybody's fighting for media attention, you can do that in the shop in the nine months leading up to the event, because that's where the products are going to get used, and make that content there. And I've never seen a pitch like that nobody ever has said, we're probably not going to win, we may not even finish, but we're going to go build a car. And you know, me and why we've never really raced before. It's a dream of ours to race in the 4600 class, we got this old clap, Dougie, and we're going to build it in our garage, and we're going to post on YouTube. And oh, yeah, by the way, I don't know how we did it. But we got 80,000 followers on YouTube, that are really into what we're doing, that's gonna sell that product, you know, I think people get hung up in the fact that they're gonna put my name on the side of the race car, and I'm gonna go out there, and nobody's gonna see it, you know, you know. And the other thing I would say, is part of knowing your audience's understanding, you know, let me just back up for a moment, hit the pause button here, there's like four types of sponsorship, in my mind. There's the best sponsorship in the world, which is your uncle Louie, who just wants to see you have a good time. And he's got plenty of money, and he just wants to hang out and go racing. And he'll just write checks, because he doesn't get any better than that. That's the best racing, you got the startup company that's trying to break into the industry, that's going to give you some product and wants to prove their product. You know, for guys starting out, that could be pretty good, as long as you believe in the product, and you're not going to bounce around from product A, B, and C, you can stand behind the product, you could give that person some testing and some feedback is pretty good for a small sponsorship. The third style is what I like to call the Generate type of sponsorship, it's not a company that needs to break in or get its brand built, but it needs to maintain its brand and its culture, you know, I think generate does a good job of that I think poison spider used to do a good job of that with Larry, of maintaining their position and kind of getting their tribes built around them. So that that's a pretty tough type of sponsorship to get because usually the business owner is heavily involved in driving that. So you're probably going to be on the coattails. And then that fourth one is the holy grail, which is that corporate sponsorship, you know, everybody wants to get corporate sponsorship, but I don't think they take into consideration is that a guy, let's just call him Jeff, who has a marketing budget of X, Y, or Z is responsible for that marketing budget of X, Y, or Z. And if he's gonna give you that either has to be a home run, or he's got to get something for it. You know, it's got to be, it's got to be something that's going to help him in his career, or maybe he's just interested in going racing, you know, I'm not suggesting that that's a great place to be when you're in corporate with compliance and things like that. But I know people that do it. But at the end of the day, if I give $1 to you why out of my marketing budget expectation from people above me is that I'm gonna get $10 back in sales. If you can't put together a plan for me, that makes that very clear that that's going to happen, I'm not going to take the risk. Because I'm the one I'm the one taking all the risk in my career, I could lose my job if I don't perform. So when you go and ask a corporate entity. And then let's say you're you're lucky enough to get to the decision maker, the guy who has the purse strings, strings, you better have a really solid plan on a return on investment for him at the corporate level. And you or you better have a really good understanding of what their want is, you know, if it's just an awareness campaign, like maybe the new Bronco, perhaps, maybe they don't care about a return, maybe they just want to get awareness and they want to associate with something really cool. Maybe that works. But for a lot of these brands, they got it they want to sell. And that marketing guy is responsible to show those sales. And, you know, I see you jumped in there. But the last thing I would just say on this subject is maybe you are selling a whole bunch of the widgets, you better give a report to that marketing guy that says how many widgets you're selling. So that it makes it really easy for him when he goes into his quarterly marketing meeting to go report on his performance that he can say, oh, and here's the PowerPoint from Wyatt Pemberton, who just sold 3000 widgets for us and made us you know, $6 million. And we gave the guy$100,000 and he made a 6 million like, you're gonna get a check stroked every year you keep that up.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:44:55

I have two words for that. That is real talk. Real talk. You broke it down. I mean, there's a, there's even a book out there called Motorsports marketing, pretty good book, but you just summed up that entire book in three minutes, four minutes. That's exactly where it's at. And I hope people listen to that and back this up and rewind this and go back through it a couple times. But that's exactly it. Now, the spit and polish on their presentation and the details in there. Yeah, that's, that goes a long ways to it's got to look good. It's got to look professional. But you need the content. Once you get accepted. This is the key that I see continued to fail. And it is, once you've accepted once the the Jeff at the company XYZ gives you the money or give you the parts, then your job is just beginning. And many apps feel like the job is now complete, I get a slap a sticker on the side of my car. And you see guys that will literally make the side of the car look like the back wall of a 711 and Compton. It just looks gross. I mean your feet up because they see the guys that actually have the corporates and they want to emulate them. I'm not I'm not saying people want to be like Lauren Haley, but people want to be like Lauren Healy. People want to be like Shannon Campbell, they want to be like Shannon Campbell, they're gonna put the stickers on. Even if the sticker was just given to them and contingency, they don't want to look like an outsider. They don't want to look like they don't have their stuff together. It's been very cool refreshing to see guys, like I haven't seen in a while but like Michael Bergman, Michael Bergman came in with his new car. White panels, nothing. There was no sponsor anything on it. And because that was right, you know, it's the whole me program, right? Yep. The number one sponsor is is me, I was always very serious about keeping minimal stickers off of my car. Because I didn't have I didn't have any real, real true sponsors like that, like, you know, certainly had some partners, and guys that jumped in and helped on my car, you know, like, like a mass motor sports. They absolutely, I paid full boat for my motor and harness and all that. But they supported fixing things. And they were good guys, that took care of me. And so yeah, I put a sticker on my car. But on the flip side, I mean, if you roll through, you know, tech contingency, you can easily add another 100 stickers to the side of your car. And every time you do you diminish the value of the ones that are on it. That's right, and not just the ones on your car, but the ones on everyone else's car. So when you finally get your personal brand,

Unknown: 1:47:29

you're diminishing your personal brand as well, when you're diluting it with all of these stickers that might pay you $25 in contingency. So people should think about that.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:47:39

So I learned that so I didn't have to learn this lesson. I already had this mentality. But I had a shop that I mean, this is easily 10 years ago, I was buying a an axle trust for 14 bolt. And the guy says, Hey, if you run my stickers, I'll ship it for free. And I was like I was I was like, Well, you know, how big is the sticker? I'm thinking, you know, like a little four by six. I think shipping was gonna be like 25 bucks at a time. It was really nothing in the grand scheme of things. I agreed. I said, Yeah, sure. So the stickers in and we'll wait waive the shipping. The sticker showed up. They were seven by 30. Orange. And they the only place you could put them is the dead center on the door because they were so big. And I felt offended. Like I was totally offended that the company thought that that's what they were going to get your free shipping your worth to them. That's right. And so I I called the guy I was like, man, I owe you for shipping. There's no way I can do this. And I paid I paid him the 25 bucks for shipping. Like I just don't, don't offend me. I mean, like that was that was a fence Even it is know your worth. And don't give your worth up for, for nothing or for free or for even negative return. You don't just because you have the stickers on your car, that you don't have to have the stickers on your car. It doesn't make you it doesn't make it go faster. It doesn't add horsepower. It doesn't mean you're going to avoid that rock on lap three. It's

Unknown: 1:49:10

Yeah, there's there's a couple pieces of advice I'll share that are just, you know, take them for what they're worth. They're free, right? The first one is, is if you don't have any sponsors, and you're new to racing, find out who the title sponsor is, find out how engaged they are. So I'll use grip Griffin radiators as a as a example. If you know they're going to be there. And you know, there's TV coverage, and it's likely that they're paying for that TV coverage. Go talk if you have no sponsors and you want to do you want to get some value. Don't put the title sponsors stickers all over your car for free. Cuz you're likely going to end up on the TV show. Because, you know, there's not going to be another car that has only stickers of the title sponsor on the racetrack. Make sure everybody knows go hustle go Talk to whoever you need to talk to you at the place and make sure they know you're going to be the Griffin car and get some TV coverage. get your name out there build your personal brand that to me that's a fair trade for stickers on a car if I have no sponsors, that's what I'm going to do because I can I can have them say There goes Jeff no man first time racing in the Griffin car number 4405. He's out there get your dog.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:50:26

That's a pretty good miles house acoustic personation no doubt about it. Yeah. And along those lines, your your new guy, go create a one pager or post not posted out but like a, you know, a postcard size cheater with a picture of your car on one side, your your your head, your face, or whatever, and some little details. And when you walk, you only need to make one of them or two of them actually, for a small amount, but maybe 10 M for K. And you go hand them to Myles and Pam and Ian and Scott rain and you go hand them off. So that Yeah, and they're gonna remember that. And so when your car comes up on the big screen or your car comes up on the TV, they're gonna be like, Oh, man, that's, that's Billy Bob Jones. He's driving blah, blah, blah, blah, but because you just spoon fed them spoon fed in the information of who you are, where you're from. And that's, that's advice for the new guys. I mean, everyone knows what Lauren Haley's car looks like. Everyone knows what horses car looks like. Like these guys have built brands over the years. So they don't have to think twice about you know what a bomber car looks like. Now it's like, which which bomber car is? Is it Randy or is it not Randy? But if you're a new guy, and you're coming in, go do something along those lines. I mean, think think, well, now it's not outside the box. I've now thrown it out to everybody. Yeah.

Unknown: 1:51:49

Well, I'll give away one of my other secrets. I you know, when I was racing, I used to get my sponsorship at off road Expo, like many people will walk around with their proposals during the show. I didn't do that. I thought, you know, these people paid good money to be at the show. You know, now that why do shows I don't want to have people come in and try to pitch me to during your show, I'm here to sell, I paid a lot of money for the booth, I need to sell some products to be to pay for the booth. But what I used to do is two things I would go to people like I'll use Jim real as an example, because I like Jim a lot. You just go to somebody like Jim real, and you buy them lunch. And you just say, Jim, take a break. Here's your lunch, go sit down from it all man your booth that will go so far. With that small business man, the day will take care of you for a long time, when you just offer them because they can't get out of their booth to go to lunch, they probably don't have somebody there to help them. They may not even get a bathroom break. And they're talking nonstop for 10 hours a day. Go buy him lunch, give them a break. Just go give them a hotdog or hamburger a sandwich or something and say I know your product. I'll take care of it. Go sit in the corner over there and enjoy your lunch for a minute. And then show him you know the product. You know, let that guy see you sell and hustle that product because then he's gonna be like, heck, yes, Jeff. Anytime you need to drive shaft, just call me because I know that you know my product and you're gonna support me. The other thing I used to do is just open a beer tab in the bar at night, work the bar and buy people a whole lot of drinks. And you know, then they'll remember you. The guy who bought us drinks.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:53:27

Definitely the next day is they're cussing you for the hangover. Hi. As we close that, close that chapter, I've got two more things that I want to get through with you. The one is simple. It's something I've had a very very recently is Hey, what's your top three songs that define Jeff Knoll today? Oh, Gemini Christmas. I can't answer that. I have no idea. Jimmy Christmas isn't a song. I hate Christmas songs by the way, but I've never heard one called Gemini.

Unknown: 1:53:51

That's a study got me stumped. I like music a lot. I listen to music non stop. But I couldn't even tell you. I listen to all kinds of stuff. So sorry, on that one.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:54:01

So what's your thing that you? Are you listening to some NPR today on your drive? Are you listening to what what is the, you turn it on? And you either zone out or it gets you in the mood?

Unknown: 1:54:14

I don't. I'm working from home. So and admittedly, I'm working way too much. So I don't have as much time as I used to. But I will tell you the thing I'm enjoying is that new clubhouse platform. I'm enjoying that because it's very real and raw. I listened to it the last two days. Three days actually I've listened to it. I tried to take a break and either go for a run or a walk or something. And I listened to I don't wanna get overly politicized. But I listened to on the anniversary of George Floyd's death. I listened to a group that was talking about police reform. It was a bipartisan group of just average, regular Americans. It was enlightening to hear you know, how would they Biggs police reform. And it wasn't what you would expect. And it was a very diverse group. And it really got me excited and made me feel like you know, whatever, regardless of what we're seeing on the media, average, Americans don't think like Fox News and CNN, though jerkins thinks somewhere in the middle. And I think you know, what, what we all want, is we want them to do work, we don't want them to go up there and be stuck in a rut of while we're Democrats, and we believe this, and we're going to go crazy and swing the pendulum really far. And unless on the flip side is where Republicans and we're gonna swing the pendulum really far on our side, we want people to do work and come up with meaningful legislation and solutions to our problems. And that group on clubhouse was doing that they literally, were writing down a list that one of the people on there was in Washington, DC, and he says, I'm literally going to start walking this through the halls, to try to get somebody to adopt these ideas. That was super exciting for me. The flip side is I listened to one today for about a half an hour was eat my lunch where they were talking about sales. And it was a you know, one of the sales guru, professional, professional guys that were role playing. And I thought was great. You know, there's some people completely bombing their pitch, and he was eating them for lunch. And then there was some other guys that would come in there and just bomb him. So it's a neat platform. I don't know where it all goes. But I think it's neat just to hear strangers, discussing topics and you can lurk or you can get involved, whatever you want. So that's kind of what I'm into right now.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:56:32

Okay, that's fair. I think those are good. And I think those are good answers. I am. I struggle with clubhouse like we, we've used it. I mean, that's kind of the you know, I've used it for this show for the the bintray sessions before events, because I think it's a really good platform for that. But I haven't been able to embrace the other stuff. And maybe because my everything I'm listening to in the car while I'm driving doesn't really, I guess play into that for me. But anyway, I do think it's I do think it's a cool platform. But funny I saw something from his buzzsprout recently that was like his clubhouse bed. And I think my hang up with clubhouse is kind of anyone can start a room. And if they're kind of the first mover on it, then they become like a self appointed subject matter expert. And I think that leads people the wrong way. But I'm not I'm not willing to debate that. The last thing I want to get out of you. The last thing is current life. Jeff No. and Angie know what you guys are currently doing. I'm about to do because it blows my mind. I think it's amazing. Walk through. Tell us tell us what you guys have up your sleeve?

Unknown: 1:57:51

All right. Well, it's kind of it's kind of big in some would probably say that it's risky. I don't think it's risky. And others might say we're having a midlife crisis, maybe we are maybe we aren't but you know it back in October. Right at the end of the October my my wife's brother had a stroke. And he survived it. But it's been pretty rough on him in in that time to other family members had medical issues that it within 30 day period that kind of was like a shot of Hey, you know, we're working way too much. My wife is been studying non stop. I've been just hammered down with Lincoln, and doing a home remodel in the process. Right. So I've been remodeling the house, this damn house for about six years. So in I don't know what's today, Thursday. So in about five days, we're going to list our house for sale and sell it want to take advantage of the market. I feel like I've read this book before and it's a Shakespearean tragedy. Everybody's going to be sad at the end. So I want to try to get out of the market for that happens. Take my chips off the table and take a little break from the real estate. And Angie and I are gonna move into our RV and go travel around for a couple years.

Wyatt Pemberton: 1:59:07

I think that's a lot of fun. And, you know, I just had Jeremy Dickenson on and found out that he kind of did similar when he moved to Texas, he bought a big toter home and parked at one place and then if they decide to go wheelin or do a race, he's a Cline in the driver's seat and away they went. So when you told me that and I just talked to Jeremy I was like, Wow, that's pretty fun. And you know, I just had a call segment on kid that's kind of what Kyle did. Kyle sold off his or people possessions, piled it in a Toyota RV and drove to California with it. Yeah, I mean, just like, I couldn't do it, but I absolutely am gonna live vicariously through you guys and and in be following your adventures and be like, God, man, that Gypsy lifestyle you know, it's it has a calling.

Unknown: 1:59:55

We don't know if it's gonna be for us or not, but we wanted to do something to shake up the snowglobe you know, we get you get in a rut in life. And it COVID it's been tough, I didn't leave the house, you know, except for maybe 20 times a year, you know, I think going to Home Depot was a treat for me. And some of that was my obligation to my job of, you know, trying to stay healthy and safe. And regardless of my personal feelings about all of it, you know, sometimes you put that aside for your career, and you just adopt what's best for your for your role, we needed to break it up. You know, I'm fortunate that I'm in a position where I can do this. I know not many of my colleagues are, so I'm going to take advantage of it. And you know, it may not last for as two years or who knows, I don't know what's next for me in my career path at Lincoln Electric, they may tap me on the shoulder and say, Hey, we need you to move to God knows where. And I want to be in a position to take advantage of that. So you know, if the economy starts to soil gets a whole lot harder to sell your house and you can't just up and move. So that's that's contributed to it. My wife's a little disappointed in some of the policies in schooling. So I think she's ready to take a little sabbatical on a break from teaching for a little while until this kind of settles down. And we need to go have some adventure. So I think Barbara Rainey for those that no trail mom, she coined the term the Knoller coaster. And so we're gonna embrace the roller coaster and just shake up that snow globe and see what happens and gain some perspective and rekindle the passion right? Yeah, we're good there. But

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:01:30

I didn't I went there. I went, like towards professional life and outlook on life, but together, okay, hey, what happens between behind closed doors?

Unknown: 2:01:42

I think, you know, we just a lot of our older friends and our in our parents have said, you know, go do this while you're young enough to enjoy it. Because if you wait till retirement, then you you may not be able to go enjoy all these things. So Andy's got about 18 months of spots reserved and picked out and itinerary taken care of for us. And, you know, we're going to get to go do things that we haven't been able to do like we're going to be at the men 400. This year, we're going to be at the Parker for 25. This year, we get to go to King of the hammers this year. You know, those are things that we haven't been able to do, because of my wife schedule, or my schedule or stuff. When in the lining, it's not easy. You know, when you're a teacher to get time off to go spend a week at King of the hammers or even Sundays, right, so we're going to, we're going to have the opportunity to do some of that we're going to go see some pretty awesome places we wanted to visit we're going to go visit some friends we haven't seen for a long time, you know, we're going to go to different areas where a lot of our friends have moved, like down to Utah, you know, Zion area, we're going to spend some time there where we've got a lot of friends that have all moved there and go explore around and we'll see where we land when it's all said and done. I suspect will probably land in Montana next to our grandchild, but we're gonna go check it out and see what's out there.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:02:59

And don't go getting used to that a RV out there. I'm gonna take it with me when I leave here in three months. Yeah. Well, Jeff, but man, thank you so much for for being such a good buddy over all these years and in gracing us and coming on the town taking a toll on your side of you know, the last you know, 10 years for sure. And but really the the rock sports story from your perspective? Did we cover everything that you want to get off your chest? Did I leave anything out?

Unknown: 2:03:28

You did? And I'm going to be the guy who says you did cuz everybody says no, we're good, man. Thanks a lot. Let's talk about my truck at the Vegas to Reno. Let's talk about some fiery Cheetos and pistachios.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:03:44

Wow, you know, bleeding here. Oh, Lord, man. Okay. So I know you're. So this truck. You picked me up in Ontario. It was a new Super Duty at the time, right? It was pretty new.

Unknown: 2:04:02

Yeah, it was pretty new. Nice truck. I think Woodley was the one who said, Man, he used to have nice trucks. I think that's what he said something like that.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:04:10

And then he proceeded to mow down several 100 rabbits. Yeah.

Unknown: 2:04:16

rabbits. That was good times. But uh, the piece that I didn't tell everybody I did embellish the story. I will admit that for the sake of entertainment because it sounds so much more fun. That did it had stashes and fire Cheetos. I don't you guys ate those things, but they weren't everywhere like that embellish. But, you know, the piece that I did leave out is the smoked AGR cooler and the smoked turbo because it was a six liter and we I think we run that truck out at Vegas to Reno. It went to the shop afterwards.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:04:51

Sure it was never the same. Terrible. Yeah. So I I don't remember pistachios, but I spilt a bag of sunflower seeds in the driver's seat. But I thought like I got them all picked up and kicked out and dumped out and then the fire he chose. I don't remember there being tears in the truck, but I'm not gonna say they weren't.

Unknown: 2:05:12

But no worst part was that I personally took that truck to the carwash and washed it right before in Las Vegas before the race so you guys don't have a pristine chase check to dry we

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:05:26

just

Unknown: 2:05:26

I brought that thing back in the funk that it's it's stunk so bad like man funk. In that cab. I it took me months to get that out of there.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:05:35

Remember when we picked you and RJ up you broken down on the backside of a mountain range? And it took us like, two hours to get to you and then tours right? But we're riding three. Why? Because there's four guys in the truck. Plus, then you and RJ brown get in. And you guys have your fire suits tied around your waist. It's August in Nevada. It's 132 degrees in the shade. We think we're sweated through and you guys are in there. You know we're again three dudes across in the front. Three dudes across the back. You guys don't have shirts on so we're sweating. It's like skin on skin stick into each other. It was gross. It was terrible. Gross. People are Noren, man. Yeah, it was bad. And I did I I got your truck stuck in like silt with a trailer hook to it. And Woodley. That's that's the way it goes. Whoa, stop. Stop chanting to China. I'm like, I think we're stuck. He goes like what gave it away? Like we weren't moving? No. I couldn't see like, the dust was so bad around us. You couldn't see that we weren't moving. And I was like, I don't think we're moving at least like like what gave it away? Did. And yeah, I sunk your track. And then I can't remember who it was they it was some it was some females. So women they hold up and they sent strapped us out of there pretty quickly just popped. And we were on our way. And away we went. But yeah, your poor track. And we did. We tried to take really good care of it. But we're for big stinky dude sweating it up. And it just it just it went,

Unknown: 2:07:19

yeah. When you leave the road, in the Nevada desert with a trailer behind your truck and a race car on it at like 5060 miles an hour. And think bad things could happen. I mean, and that's what what it was just like, well, I'm just gonna drift off the road and see if I can hit some rabbits at like 60 miles an hour.

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:07:39

I don't remember it going down like that. But that was Adam Woodley driving at night. Yeah, that was we'll be driving worthy. If we had an audio recording of that, but he's like, and what's up with all these suicidal bunnies? No kidding. They would just run out that we'd see them on the shoulder. And then they just run out and we get them over? It was Yeah, a bunch of really, really crazy. The vultures ate well, the coyotes.

Unknown: 2:08:06

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. And congratulations on your 50th episode of the talent tank. Oh, man. Thank

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:08:13

you. And thank you for being the the finale for the spring season. And thanks for all the work you did you know, 12 1314 years ago, at the infancy of this thing that we're all chasing still today.

Unknown: 2:08:23

Well, I'm still looking for that next new thing that a bit exciting, and hopefully I can get back out and see some racing and maybe even be part of a team someday. So thanks again. Appreciate it,

Wyatt Pemberton: 2:08:32

man. We'll catch you later, Jeff. And on that note, we're out.

Intro/Outro: 2:08:37

Thank you for listening and taking a dive into the tail end team. Please like and subscribe on Instagram at the tail end or our website, the talent tank.com