EP 44 John Goodby

A play on the triumph and losses in performance and life.  The Talent Tank podcast will navigate the inner workings of lifestyle, lives, family, teams, careers, programs, and technology in and around the offroad motorsports industry.  What breeds success with your Talent Tank on full, failures when its on empty.  From the journey to the Starting Line to take that Green Flag, on to exploring trials and tribulations on and off the track in pursuit of victorious achievement and the Checkered Flag.

He's been involved in pushing the 4wd Go Fast offroad genre forward in three different decades, and he's not even an old guy.  Founder of NorCal Rock Racing, runner of the dozer, builder of the dirt jumps, conveyor of the concrete, none other than the elusive because he's so busy John Goodby of  @norcalrockracing jumps into  The Talent Tank this episode.   From building courses for ULTRA4 Racing , running events, timing and all that comes with that headache, and even a sidebar on daily street driven pre-runners.   

Headshot provided by Alan Johnson @thedustygnome

After the Checkered Flag-
How Many Pools Are in the United States? There are 10.4 million residential and 309,000 public swimming pools in the United States, according to the Association of Pool & Spa Professionals (APSP).

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Transcript

Intro/Outro: 0:02

Let's drop the green flag on this episode of the talent tank podcast with your host Wyatt Pemberton bringing you the best, fastest, most knowledgeable personalities and Ultra4 and off road ra ing.

Wyatt Pemberton: 0:20

Alright, alright. Alright, here we go. Everyone back at it. Thanks for tuning in pallant tank another episode coming at you. Oh man we got this guy behind the scenes another kind of behind the scenes guy but he's not easy. He runs a show over at NorCal rock racing. He's been involved with ultra forces before before was ultra for his series is definitely older. JOHN Goodby a ot of people know you as the is he timing guy. But you're not ust the timing guy. How you oing john? I'm pretty good, an. So you're coming to us live rom Las Vegas? Yeah, but you're ot from you're not from Vegas. ou don't live in Vegas? Why are ou in Vegas? I'm here for olley LS fest West not not trippers and blow. No, no, not eally my forte. Your forte. And hat are you doing there to olly LS fest so started out a ouple of years ago on the West oast originally they contacted ltra for and me to do a build or them for the off road ection at their show. And by ill that's a course you You are you can run some heavy quipment. You tend to be the uy on the dozer build the umps. Yeah, yeah, we have a reat team or really just one ne person me and another guy, hris l rod from alward Pro traps. Most people know him as ird and I pretty much build verything together but there's ozers moving old for vans it's sually hammer I and Holly's ontracted us for last couple of ears to do their build for them or the off road show here. So hat's super cool. So I didn't now I've seen the rod stuff ike Nick Nelson that you know lways Pippen rod straps. So e's also a heavy equipment perator today. That's a bird hat's bird he's a man like so e you know since I started in orkout rock racing, he's been nly from the beginning like he s literally the last lone oldier of knockout rockers and olunteers not volunteer anymore bviously but had limit straps nd tie downs and everything can ell yeah closing closing the oop. Well gosh, you guys I mean ou hear that? I didn't realize hat but you can support l rods nd put a rod straps on your ar.

Unknown: 2:20

I mean, if you if you watch a king of hammers 2020 I mean that strap held Markos car together. That's that's his trap. That was when Marcus clipped the tree and came in floppy jalopy on the right front. Yep. And the upper arms broke off and holding holding those limit strap was literally l rods bow straps for a good little pitch there. That is a great pitch. That's a great story. Everyone knows everyone knows the Marco story but didn't realize that that was it. Wow. Um, I would normally just call down to California and in order me up a set of straps from a was that over there in a Norco though? Yeah, yeah, one of those guys. Yeah, one of those guys. There's a bunch of guys that make straps. hE hE ruffstuff specialties actually, not that I'm pitching roughed up, but they stalk his dog or his traps and stalk and he's got a patent on some of the stuff that's in those traps to help him from Terran. And he's put a lot of thought into it and start making the wide straps for tires and whatnot. He's He's, he's rad. he's a he's a machine man. Like, we'll do 15 hours in the dozer together and get off and do it again next day. Wow. Well, I'm just making mental notes. Well, okay, so you guys are well, both of you two together in this trip down there in Vegas. Are you solo? So yeah, I'm actually so I have another guy with me right now. But he's helped me out before. Chris is actually he works with me full time. And we did pools as a regular business that we started there. I started and he's been working for me. So we didn't finish our projects. So he's home. And I'm here. You just had a big race this past weekend. Yeah, yeah, we had around one of the 2021 knockout rock racing series up in friendly Nevada. And in for everyone. Listen, you're you're right. It wasn't this past weekend for you. This was a weekend that weekend ago, but I we're recording after you know, we're recording very, very close to when the singer so we get you know, the most current the best up to date information. But uh, so yeah, so you put on that race who end up winning the 4400 race there. jp Gomez. He did. I think he's going on like his uh, I think he's got three or four championships with Norco crazy. Again, I'm one of those guys who I don't necessarily always remember who wins by definitely remember who puts on the biggest show. And Ron prindle put on the biggest show. Yeah, he cleared that out. That's I mean, he was making up time on those guys. And he just he went for it. And then you had who rolled you had you had a couple of good rolls on and heat one. You had Marcos? Marcos? No, no, no. Marcos was in there. Marcos rolls rolls but roll rolling the main that was in the main on like lab. I don't even know three maybe who were who rolled in heat one though. Brian Thompson I believe that's who it was. Okay. So yet newstar Yeah, you guys had when the camera could zoom in and no one said it on that the announcer never said it. But when the cameras zooming in, or you got was the belly of the car? Oh, they all kind of look the same belly in the black car. Yeah, I mean, technically, that's a UFO car indirectly, you know, I mean, it was a brother. So Joe Thompson so definitely, I mean, I guess the billing could be the same. Just go back. 10 years. Yeah, right. gin minus point, like, Yeah. Is that big before Go man has he? Yeah, it was I think it was before U of O so I don't know whatever that whatever that acronym be. But I thought was pretty cool to saw. See Kevin Yoder out there. yoders machine man. He's raised them from the very beginning. Like he's literally from the first pre NorCal rockeries and which we'll get into later. Yeah, Kevin's been there. He's been. He's been a soldier and he. He kills it. He gets he lays it out on the line. And he actually hit he had a pretty good show. There he stuff the front end a little nosewheel in the Rockpile, too. Yeah, he had a pretty good video there. How long does it take you to set up for that event? For NorCal round? Fernley is a new new location. So we've only raised her three times. And when I first went there in October last year, getting trying to get to the COVID stuff. That area never been touched. It was robbed at Northern Nevada desert. So it was a it was it had been untouched, like no water. Nope, no course. So we cut in just just shy of a two hour course in four days. And then we had another rate with Norco side by side, which is a branch of Markel rock racing. We ran that a month before up there were just side by side classes. And the track was 10 times what it was the first one in October. And then this last one, with the Wild West closing down and the date change. Literally, I got the phone call on Thursday, pre race week. So Saturday morning and loaded up, went straight there built a five acre parking lot because I wanted more parking, and prep the track and then went back on Wednesday morning and worked Wednesday to practice start at two o'clock on Friday. So along those lines in you drop the the easter egg there about you know, the Nationals is you know, shut down. And I know there's a scramble in the discussion about where this is going. I've seen Fernley throw out there thrown out there numerous times on social media and I've never heard anyone say it to me in person or at least on the phone or anything like that is is certainly a hack now that you've been there you've put on races there. Is that a viable location for an old for nationals? I think yeah, I think when I built that place originally when I first one I first pre sighted The location is basically Prairie City on steroids. So I built a spectator Hill that's three times the size of the grass areas at Prairie City to fiddle with ever been there we call spectator Hill and then I tear the hill out. So there's actually you can set an easy up up and still see over the, you know, on the top tier, you can still see over the second tier with an easier but it's definitely something there. It's it's got a great future and potential like I when I tell people what I want to do there, everyone sees the vision I think my vision is, is pretty solid from building tracks, you know, a little bit of everywhere. So I think is definitely viable. I mean, that's the stuff that Dave and I have to talk through zoo. And there's obviously some other locations on the table, but it's for sure for sure. It'd be amazing, but we'll see. I wouldn't try to back you into you know, alluding to anything with friendly. I just seen it floated and since not having been there in this weekend. Was it was it you text me right before the greenfire heat one? And I did not I was following Sam fleabay and following rush and then I didn't I don't know escaped me. I flip it open. And there it is. Everyone is staged to the line. It's like the Gomez fleet. I'm like, Oh, I'm watching this for four laps of this and just oh man. It was great. Dan wyrick in heat one walking away. And then just getting real back in. Just he just got real. I mean, he had he got he was so far out front. I'm like oh yeah, he's good. And then yeah, he just got reeled in man, but Dan was kicking himself Yeah, yeah, I don't watch many races so like it's sometimes you tell me ask me questions like knowing who won? Technically only reason I really know how one is because I just read the checks. So So is that your thing? Is that where you get the pleasure the satisfaction the you know, the the fulfillment is from the executing the prep the plan and then getting it going? And then once it's going it's the ship the ship left port, the train left the station? Yeah, no, I mean, once we get going, I mean, bird takes over on the track and I don't go on the track anymore. I pretty much let him just he runs the track handles recovery handles between him and my timing my timing team. I don't even do time anymore around events. So between the stagers and timers and my pre stagers and and bird and They just they handle the traffic and I put up the fires outside the fences, I guess you'd say. And it's an amazing team. You know, with this, it's, it goes pretty well, I feel now we run a real tight crew. I mean, there's, there's like seven, you know, seven core staff maybe running that event. Maybe you're pulling off a damn big event. And we're, you know, we're dealing Yeah, we're doing 27 races and eight hours. That's always impressive. I'm always impressed. You know, anyone that puts those on, I would struggle I get where there's, there's calls to be made in making calls in like the heat a moment without all the information or with partial information. I know that's, that's hard. And it makes the second guessing the Monday quarterbacking afterwards be all that much. tough to deal with, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, do you know just some of the stuff that happens on the track? I get? No, I have no idea what's going on. I mean, sometimes I won't see a race at all. So it's pretty tough. I have to rely on on unburdened what he saw and you know, he's my head. attrack official, I guess you'd compare him to DT before. He's a little more rash and a little more aggressive than JT JT is a little more people pleaser. bertel tell you how it is if you lose them, and he's got a yellow flag out. You better hide in your truck. You can get this JT I you know, I love JT great, buddy. I go anywhere if that guy do anything for him, but he talks a big game. Yeah, yeah. The knife edge ham, you know? Yeah. I love JT. He's not as scary as he used to be. I think that's right. I think he is he mellowing in his old age? Yeah, I think Yeah, that'd be there. scarier. People have been on staff. So he got he got demoted and scariness level as he turned 50 yet, I don't know. I mean, he's probably like 170 by now. He's like a vampire. is if he's in Texas, I'm easily at least 170 by now. Right? amount of birthdays. He has. Oh, well. Yeah, he has 365 of those a day. I mean, yeah, you're right. I was going to show it with 170 cuz I figured some people miss him sometimes. Sometimes. Yes. He's a great guy. I really do like the the team that ultra for has has put together but you ended up you in that mix. We'll get there down the road. We'll go back to to Current Affairs and so Holly LS fest you got down there. Okay, so you leave your race. You broke down. You know, break it down. Saturday, Sunday. You get back from Fernley get back to your place you live. You live outside Folsom, California, right outside Sacramento. Yeah, I'm a little east on McCarren Park like shingle springs camp hard border now. That's the road that you when you head out of Folsom towards Tahoe. head toward the Eldorado forest. Yep, highway 50. Like I'm for exits from, like, I used to live across the freeway from Prairie City. Literally, you can see my house from Prairie City. Like if you knew which way you're looking. And I moved up, and I grew up in that town and Folsom but I needed some dirt. I needed some land. So I moved up the hill on I made it for exits. I went real far. Not real far. Oh yeah. Of all the towns in California that I was. I haven't spent a ton of time outside of Johnson Valley and hammer town. The most time I've spent California has been in Folsom. And it was years and years of going there to visit the California independent system operator, California so and back when they were on blue, blue ravine road, and then the bunker was over there. And then they moved everything over to iron point with the new facility and controlling all the electricity that comes in and produced in and consumed in the state of California. That's crazy. I don't even know that was there. That's funny. That's I mean, I grew up in Folsom. And when we moved there, I mean, I was four years old. So I mean, I watched that town grow. I've had multiple houses and areas that I used to ride a dirt bike in. I mean, I used to ride my dirt bike where the hospital is, right. And so that town is it's definitely grown. My parents are still in the same house. My school bus went through the prison, you know, and picked up the kids that the kids that lived there. The state workers lived in the prison grounds and yeah, it was a it was a cool town. Yeah. famous, famous song right now. Yeah, Johnny Cash. Yeah, they built the trailer. They built a new bike trail Actually, that's there. So Oh, no kidding. Yeah, yeah, there's a giant gas trail now. Yeah, so that's pretty cool. Now is the like there's the lakewater really down here. I don't know if the like right now. It's more like a puddle. But yeah, yeah, like that looks pretty good. It's like it's a good leg glide, good fishing, a lot of good recreation. That's amazing place. Definitely amazing place to grow. I'd fly out there I would have work so I'd be at Cal ISO during the day. And then I would schedule the fly back not the next day but the following day, and I would leave and I would head to head up to the elder out of Tahoe to actually down a mountain house. Not to the cat house but to schaefers and help racecars and DSI. Oh good. And then they do the drive back and kind of work vacation day outwest around race cars into a business trip. That's a leveraging some good stories about trying to get back through the Eldorado and like in wintertime when snow. And yeah, the Caltrans workers out there like walking in Yeah, like, Where do you think you're going? Yeah. And I got to catch a flight in the morning, man. Yeah, I've been I've been in many places, obviously, you know, Gene racing my whole life. And I mean, Folsom is centrally located now or an hour or Domingo snowy Elena 35 minutes, or I can, if you want to go to San Cisco, you can be there an hour. You know, it's pretty centrally located airports. And our you know, 40 minutes away like, I don't know, man, I've been in a lot of places in this country. And I don't know where else to go. I don't think I'm leaving. No. Wait for exits from Folsom, I guess. But besides that, besides it, I mean, you're you're close to wine country. You can go down to Fairfield if you want to get yourself some, you know, some jelly bellies. I mean, there's a button. There's a Budweiser plant down there. Oh, it's not that I drink but there's one down there. Do you not drink you drink? No, no, I'm not a big drinker. Now. I like beer. I mean, I'll drink other stuff. firewall, but yeah, I tried at races. I try to keep it pretty chill. I drink a lot of water. That's kind of my drink. Lrr bit. So he's gonna have a firewall out. I'll have those. Yes, I struggled with. You know, I'm no secret. I'm a diabetic. And so when I was I was having a lot of problems with meds and getting my meds right. I was hungry. So I actually stopped drinking for quite a while. Once we got those meds right. Back to the beer. Yeah, no game on. Hi, Game on. We're good. Yeah, so you grew up in Folsom? Oh, life. Where did you go to college? You have a degree in business management? Yeah. I went to CSU California State University. So Sacramento You didn't even you really do love that area? You didn't get involved? Yeah, there's stories behind that. Yeah, usually that's the you know, like you didn't you didn't want to get away from home you didn't want to get from your parents or or it's a significant other right you've got a girlfriend and they didn't go somewhere. It's got to be some reason right? Yeah, the cell the real story is i was i mean go for backwards in my life. I was racing motocross still, and I want to go down to Southern California. That's where the mecca was. But um, my family business was here. And I was racing motocross, I thought I was gonna, I thought I was gonna be you know, Ricky Carmichael. Right. So just like everyone else does. So I played around junior college for you know, I took a couple extra shifts, you know, so, you know, one class here, one class there, you know, it's more important to render by. So by the time I was getting ready to transfer, get out junior college, I was getting older. And I just pretty much told myself, I swear, I told my parents, they swear I didn't tell them. But you know, if I didn't make it, like a legit pro by, you know, 2021 I was going to hang it up. And, and I think that's about time I transferred at Sac State. And I hung the boots up and put my head down and finished school and started my first company and help with the family company. And it made sense to stay home and the business program is tax day, it's really, really good. And full circle, my grandma actually got her master's from there. So my grandma got to watch me walk at Sac State where she got her master's. So like kind of full circle of that's how that's how I stayed. I think this is a very cool your grain to go down is you mentioned you know, your family, your family had a business and I know you today to be an entrepreneur with multiple things, kind of like a freelancer, kind of like a mercenary for hire, but also, you have multiple avenues that you've started. Talk us through that you're living, I guess under that guise, of being your own boss every single day, because some people are I mean, some people have that, that that's the only thing that they can do. And that's the only thing they see themselves doing. And that's their drive. And then you got other people are like, man, I just want my eight to five. I wish I mean, I would know that eight to five look like I don't even know what I don't know, to seven to seven looks like. But you know, a family coming. My dad's a hard worker. Mom's right. Mom ran the company with them. As excavation company we did. We did finish grading on production houses and we hit we were a medium sized company. And the ML man just is a machine like he he would still work to this day if he could see, unfortunately got macular degeneration of his eyes. So he's going blind slowly. But I mean, he was on a tractor. I mean, he's 79 and he was on a tractor probably till he was 75. And still I work in every guy we had. So the family company was huge. We actually recently just shut the doors down, not COVID not liberals just dis business decisions, you know, capital. I mean, guess the liberals California. being compliant with equipment and trucks and stuff is a bunch of money to spend at the end of the year of the end of 2020 and I just made a I made a decision between another business I have and racing and everything else I want to do in my life it just it was it was too much too much work for me and I wasn't good. And honestly, I wasn't good enough on on equipment to make up for my guys when they would, you know, call in sick or they were just dragging ass for lack of terms. I wasn't I wasn't my dad, I wasn't I wasn't a machine. I mean, I spent more time on my dirt bike and I transitioned in the building the race tracks and whatnot, I didn't spend the time on the finish grading aspect of that business. So I just, I just flat out wasn't as good as I needed to be to bail out anything we need to do. So between that and California compliance and trucks I would have been, you know, well over half a million dollars stay in business and just wasn't on paper didn't make any sense. I just so we almost 50 years, we shut the door. It was kind of almost like a failure, but not and. But my parents are happy. They're they're okay. They're old. So we're cranking I'll say it this way. If anything is constant in life, it's change. Nothing's nothing's forever. Yeah, there's really nothing is forever and and that said, it is um, you said that your your your family business 50 years closed, but on the flip side, that allows you to make the next business and make the next business and make the next Yeah, and that's a left a left the door open like so I guess go back to the part of the reason is the game changed, right? I mean, the grading business when you when you have a painter or drywall guy or, or a roofer those guys show up and pick up trucks, right and have materials delivered in their, you know, their overhead is a couple guys X amount of dollars an hour and they show up in their truck and they do their thing and they leave you know, even in the concrete world, it's like that. But with the escalation side, we're showing up with a quarter million dollars in equipment, and we're the least paid trade on that job. You know, and that's when my old man and he did all those years, he made it work made a great living, you know, you know, he always worked and we and it was okay, you know, we weren't, we weren't, well, rich weren't poor, right. But with the game changing and the cost of equipment, operating costs and fuel and everything else and being in being the cheapest trade like a painter paints a house for 10 grand, you know, and they do for day, but we go on to finish grade 10 houses before landscapers get there. And we're in there for like five grand for 10 houses like it was dirt is drastic. So there's some guys out there we are all we're competition state and they you know, they're there. They're growing and picking up our slack and, you know, more power to them. Because not all the deals a bunch of trucks and a bunch of tractor breaking all the time. Yeah, thin margin. Now, as you move forward with all the new equipment, the tunes the programming, they're not easy to just fix in the field, you got a home to the dealership. And there's, there's, I mean, the john deere is in the middle of multiple lawsuits over the proprietary Enos of their software. And the ability to even work on your stuff now is how to call, you know, this afternoon from a friend that he's been doing. He's like, Man, I'm about to hang it up. working on cars. He goes, these guys keep bringing me tractors, and I'm making way more money repairing tractors than I was ever making, you know, car repairs. I was like, well, don't do anything new. And he goes on, man, I can't work on new stuff. I don't have, you know, the john dears code reader was $7,000. Like, yeah, I'm not going to do diagnostics. I can't justify that they can take that shit to the dealer. Yeah, it's, it's insane. You know, I mean, just just a carb compliance that, you know, California Air Resource Board. I mean, it's just insane. I mean, taking trucks that are off the road, you know, two or three truck fleets and just, you know, when these guys were on a low mileage program for like, 5000 miles a year for as long as we could do you know, it's playing the game is destroying owner operators of any business of any kind of trucking. Do you think the future when they get there? And I don't think it's anytime soon? I think it's the 10 year is kind of the horizon? I see for it and what seems like we're reading on the hydrogen in the trucks on the road. In California, that seems to be the place where everyone's going. And everyone's developing, trying to put in hydrogen fuel stations trying to put in hydrogen manufacturing. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I don't I mean, I don't know. I haven't kept up on that stuff. So it's just that was for Mountain rightfield. Sorry. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's not my it's not my gig, right. I mean, my other stuff. My other businesses are what they are and the grading sucks, but we are I mean, I actually have something forced out of that. After king of the hammers hand swipe, I handed a little bit earlier as as Chris a bird. We started digging pools, sorry, had a bunch of equipment. So we just literally transitioned my buddy has a book company couldn't couldn't the diggers couldn't keep up. So I told him before we got to Keio age before we left. I said he figured out he had three weeks to figure it out. I'm gonna like bed for 20 days. So you figure it out. And when I get home, I'll dig him. He called me during race week. He's like when you go home. I'm like, you got another six days, man. He's like, well Hurry up. So we got home and I think we are I think we're Start in our 12th and 13th pool tomorrow, since we've been working in the hammers. So not bad for a couple man crew, or a one man crew more or less, because I leave him by himself quite a bit, is the margin they're good or reasonably better. I'm in the same spot I was before you know that I've been paying the truck drivers did all the dirt. And now like, now I got to buy trucks. I'm almost in the same spot I was before. But I'm able to leverage some of the equipment I already have. And I'm gonna liquidate some of that and hopefully have, you know, come out and try to be, you know, not a bunch of payments and keep on operating. That was our biggest thing is my old man is, you know, we've been a cash based company forever. So we owned everything. So you know, to have payments was not in our business plan by any means. I gotcha. Yeah. So the the concrete business I'm involved in, we own our not all of our equipment, we own chunks of it. And we would move it around, not ourselves. We had guys that we would call they show up with a truck, wherever it is. Sometimes it'd be a roll off, sometimes it'd be a bigger truck sometimes would be a lowboy and move the stuff for us. And it was just a flat rate. Yep, every day, and then we just didn't have to worry about any of that. And then didn't have to worry about getting you haven't got houseless or, or commercial vehicle enforcement here in Houston, pulling your truck over and then hassling it. We just didn't we just don't worry about it. It's a Hey, we got this, this mini x here, we need to move here tomorrow. We've got this, these skid steers here, we need to move over there in two days. I mean, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, there's there's a way to do it in the in the pool thing in business is pretty competitive. So you have to own your own trucks. You can't You can't be paying an hourly rate of trucks. I mean, I'm finding that out real fast, we got dump trailers and stuff. But obviously that is a haul as much material. So that's when I get home for a short period of time I'm home. I'm going to work on dry get that all ironed out. But it's funny, I don't know you work for a Cochrane company, because that's my other business. Well, back in. So I got involved in I was buying a company in 2017. And then we dissolved kind of my buying out of that in the beginning of 2020. The guy decided it was a five year buyout. We were a little over a year and a half in and he came to the realization he did not want to, he didn't want to retire it. Like once he was faced with, you know, three and a half years he was going to be done. He couldn't and now we're well that would have ended the end of this year would have been when the buyer was completely in, he's going stronger than ever. Yeah. He just had no interest in. And the thing was, as I was that far into it. I wasn't loving it. I liked it. But I didn't love it. I'm back doing what I did for 20 years, and I love doing that. So I'm good there. But the labor like you rob labor, and we struggled with that every single day, you know, you'd had an SME brought this up to me yesterday, yesterday. Similarly, it was like, you know, we had, you know, Hispanic crews be the be the Guatemalan or from Honduras, or they were truly from Mexico. And you'd have a foreman speaks English. Yep. Good. And but every day, he showed up with 10 different nudes, or eight of the same dudes, two new ones. And it was like constantly this constant, having to retrain people every day, and they do stuff wrong. So you always had this, it was just, it's freaking constant. just deal with is like, how can you guys keep getting this wrong? Well, it's because every single day is a different set of dudes. So yeah, it's constructions. It's a game, right? I mean, I don't know, I consider myself a fixer, I guess, in my aspect of life. So if it's a challenge, you know, and I can fix it, then that's what we do. So that's kind of where the concrete cutting comes in. You know, I mean, concrete is one of those things, you get three to four hours of working time, and that's it. So you're on fire the whole time. It's kind of like promoting a race, right? You're always you're always chasing something. So it kind of all goes hand in hand. And if you're on a dock project, it's two hours, and the concrete can't be above 91 degrees. Well, if you pour in the summertime in Houston anyway. It's over 95 in the morning, so yeah, you know, I can't tell you how I do not miss the leaving my house at three in the morning to start to drive an hour to get first

trucks there by 4: 29:16

30am. Poor from 4:30am and you're like wrapping up, you know, a 500 yard pour it you know, 1011 noon. The finishers are there. They're going to be there till like three and then you still have to go to other job site bids other. Yeah. Hey, so tell me about your concrete business. So we're a little smaller scale. We started out as curbing, I bought a Kirby Machine Company, you know, just like landscape curbing between your grass and your planner, you know, low extruded curbs. Okay, so I bought a company did that. Gosh, 2009 You know, I'm coming up on 20 years. So we bought this company and then I knew nothing about concrete. I'll still go on this. Cool, am I a childhood friend was doing concrete and I'm like, Hey man, I got to get a concrete license for this curb thing. I'm like, Hey, you wanna you want to leave the guys you're working with and come work for me so here we go on a Ford Ranger with a lumber rack and my my Chevy truck and and we went forward and we and I had everyone from every one of my friends work in we've just we went for just all did all high end stamped, taught are taught myself how to detail color sealing acid stain, did a couple classes here and there did some did some stamp testing of density of the rubbers, like literally before the economy, you know, did our tank and we just we went for like pool decks patios, walkways, driveways, and just, you know, to cruise and just when we went it was if it wasn't stamped concrete, and it wasn't decorative and high square footage. We didn't touch it. That's awesome. Yeah, those guys are, you know, artisans. For sure, yeah. I had teach myself how to detail and fix things that when you're when you're stamping concrete, and you miss in color and fixed in full with like full finishing concrete more or less. I mean, I literally had to teach myself this stuff. It was crazy. Who is good time when I was young. And it was, I didn't nothing. I mean, I didn't I didn't know I didn't I didn't know how to rod I did not occur to join, I did not finish. I mean, I knew nothing like it was literally relying on my friends. And I had the business and I had the business mindset. And I said, Hey, I can pay you guys as much. And as we get bigger, we'll grow and we did pretty good till the economy, you know, took a tank and then things change. We survived. And my God, my buddy went on somewhere else to go to bigger, better things. And I kept going and hired more guys. And I mean, I think we're almost on 20 years. I think I can't remember. It's been a long time. balinska I don't know how you didn't have enough have enough spare time. But you mentioned to me a while back a conversation that you also have a like a rap company. Yes, like get a rap but a vinyl bombing you never know, you know, maybe one of my secret talents. So my buddy had a bunch of machines in his house and he wasn't running them anymore. He got into the green business, and my cane and he was just a friend of mine banners and stickers and one on there just sitting. He's like, just come get him I don't even care. I'm like, okay, so I got a shop in my house. And so I built a cleanroom in my shop and we're actually up and running pretty solid right now we're doing a bunch of stuff with with Gomez. And we wrapped their cars from a lab, actually. And those are the first I did all three cars over the weekend in like 26 hours, we wrapped all three cars. I mean, I mean wrapped around stuff and did more across stickers and stuff not but never did like a full car like that. I mean, literally neighbors like what's going on, you know, Jason laughing their, their shop manager brings over the cars and drops him off my neighbor's car, like what is going on. And we went for it and wrapped the cars and now we're doing a bunch of graphics and logos and Ryan deltapoint you know, he's everyone knows who he is red line projects. He's worked on the from the very beginning of NorCal pretty much and worked for OLED for four and he's been helped me the design expert aspect and we just print away and at night, I go out there in the shop and we do some printing and do some weeding and it's I like it. It's fun. It's different, you know, and it's probably the only thing in my life that's not time sensitive. Yeah, man. You mentioned Rob Ryan del Conte. So I shared an RV with him recently at hammers for for five or seven days or something. Yeah, well, that guy got he's awesome. He is he is a solid dude. I mean, he showed up with NorCal rays. I don't know how many years ago now. I was like, do you know? I mean, he's still skinny little guy. And he's like, I want to take pictures. I'm like, Well don't die. And he's like, okay, and I mean, and he's got a great I mean, obviously he's behind a lot of stuff a lot for and he's been behind me for a long time. I mean, we learned or he learned, you know, Adobe and Photoshop and how to build a website. I mean, literally stuff that. I mean, he's had a camera and we just went for it. And his skill sets really high now and I mean, I couldn't do without him. I an old four couldn't do without him and the poor guy. He's he spreads thinner than he is skinny. Yeah, right. Great guy. redline projects. Yeah, I'm sure you guys have seen him on on Instagram. You've definitely seen his pictures if you didn't know who it was behind there. I actually didn't know who was behind there until not that long ago. Yeah, he's, he's solid. He's a like I said he's got a great eye. We do a lot of cool stuff together. He's local to me for now. All the T shirt designs behind Norco. I mean, I thought him I mean him and I was go through and pound it out and figure it out. The only shirt he doesn't design is actual actual event shirts, which is a cartoony style shirt and the same guy has been doing those shirts for me from the very beginning and every adventure he's done. So otherwise Ryan doesn't. I feel like he told me or maybe Roxy told me he's done some of the hammer shirts to someone. He made them behind the scenes a lot ultra for stuff also. Yeah, I think I think he is I don't is he? He's definitely he's definitely roxio is, you know, Roxy things it's funny. He goes oh my god, Ryan I was like, yeah, your guy Ryan. Yeah, Roxy Dude, he was mine first. Our guys super weird. Alright Roxy, watch it will break your other leg, right? Yes, seriously? I'm a buyer that knee scooter. She's gonna hear that $2 it's in the mail. Oh, I love it. Yeah, I mean, she had surgery. And then I think she's still kind of limping around. I know. She wasn't she was in Kentucky, but But yeah, I mean, she stepped out of her RV onto a rock. I mean, how freaky she is that out of the hammers. That's a good wife. That's a solid cover up. So, you know, we'll go with that. For Robert. He was he was already, you know, taking care of her anyway. I mean, she runs the show, but uh, Oh, God, I I read a meme today that made me think about her. And I'll look up here in a second at the read it out. But nonetheless. So there you've got the rap video going you tell me about it. Haha. Okay. And I swear, and we did not have a good connection. So this wasn't like me standing in the bathroom pee. And while you were talking, I was ignoring you. I just didn't catch it. But I thought and I didn't when I saw the cars. Nothing stood out. But I swear you told me that you wrapped one of them in polka dots. Yeah, well, it wasn't technically polka dots. The design was like a matrix like a, I guess maybe a polka dot matrix. And it was done by Dell Dell quanta in and it was on JPS car and they came to they pick the cars up and went to go test it and JP show up to the yard and he goes Those are my panels are they? And the guys are like Yeah, he's like, it looks like freakin polka dots. And he's like, that's not gonna work. And this is like I'm leaving for my lab to go Whelan for a couple days for once. You know and Chris Burnett, the race team managers like Hey, man, you gotta rewrap JPS car. I'm like, there's no way man. I'm leaving tomorrow. So he's like, Well, do you have any black material? I said, Yeah, I got some gloss black. So one of the guys came by and picked up some gloss black and he had some guys in the shop in the yard between all you know, they're all their stuff they got going on. They wrapped the cars black and stickered them. So so it got redone. So got covered already done. Yeah, but we're all stayed the same. And then Marcus, his car was a little satin black with stickers on it. And that was pretty simple. But uh, yeah, JP, I didn't want to be in his head. You know, I mean, as dumb as it sounds, it's important to me, you know, when you get the cards comfortable on as dumb as a rap sounds? I mean, if he doesn't like the rap, I mean, who knows? You know, I'm not gonna be the guy that JP watered his car up, because he all he could think about was his polka dotted. He didn't get for the cameras, right? Yeah, you know, and obviously, they're contenders at every event they go to. So I mean, it's important for me to them for them to look good. And if I'm going to do it, it needs to be 100%. So it's important to me. And so I wish I could have rewrapped the cars I would have highlighted was already travel planned. And I was going and we have a new design coming out and hopefully the cars be, I'll get all the panels back when I get home and get those reroute for sampling for them and get them all cleaned up. There'll be perfect. No, I really liked that I really liked that you're you're passionate about to the point that you recognize that you have the self awareness that you could impact someone else's race in that regard. And a lot of people just don't live in that world today. Right? They're, you know, very, you know, they're self absorbed in what they have going. And it's a funny joke. It's a funny joke. But yeah, it's important, you know, I mean, you got to become fooled. I mean, it's everything it goes from if you're a racer, I mean, all these racers can relate, you know, I mean, I came from BMX and motocross and you never raced with a new helmet, you throw it on the ground, you know, it's just, you know, new driving the suit you tuck and roll. I don't know. I mean, whatever the wherever the driving rules are, but you know, I mean, I dropped brand new $100 right helmets all the time. My dad just looks at me I'm like, it's better to be on the ground and on my head. I think a lot of that stuff mental and those guys, you know, all the drivers now. They're all they're all they're a game and I think that anything is and it sounds dumb, but the rap but I think that anything can be in their head. And if you can alleviate that for your drivers, you know, as a as whatever part of the team you are. That's That's huge. I think not nothing fair. So, before we Yeah, I want to talk about like San Felipe and some upcoming stuff, but I want to actually jump back you run in the business, your concrete going you were dirt biking it what At what point, you know, I guess you use the word 2021. So about 2001 2002 somewhere in there. You got into concrete. I know by by oh eight you'd started NorCal rock racing. So in that window there you're in your 20s How did you I mean, we're in based on location in Folsom. I assume you're recreating up on the Rubicon I assume you're messing around Eldorado forest. I know. Your price still right in your moto. How did you I guess make the transition to get into wheeling concrete Coby is cranking we're doing our thing oh three was my last new bike. I didn't I haven't touched her bike since 2003. I've literally wrote Yamaha yz f 250. In oh three and that was it. I haven't seen one haven't touched one sat on one started one nothing. And about that same time. Some people know right? cooked from the rock zombies he was working for me as a salesman from a concrete company we're all friends I've known Rob six years old actually awesome dude used to announce for me just got burnt out with life and family he he was working for me he's like hey man, you gotta go We'll and I was like okay like I've been through Sierra track with my dad and Jeepers and there's pictures of me you know five years old in the back of a Jeep CJ seven you know head bobbing back there with my old man and there's some car check pictures my old man got lifeflight out here tracks I mean, I've been through all those trails for days and Rubicon beef, you know, pre 10 years old, but not even knowing any of it. So no three, Rob's like me really getting a wheel and I was like okay, so I'm like checking it out. And so you know there are zombies I think it started and maybe that time not sure. And you know, I feel the charity and all those guys and fill out a buggy or Jeep for sale. Someone else had one sign up buying them 79 cJ seven tub back half. Keith bill Papa Smurf in the wheeling community was a fabricator. We're going to his house data guy. Amazing fabricator. Rob cook. He's the big he's the big big Rob. He looks like if like he looks like Danny Edwards if Danny Edwards gain 200 pounds, right? Yeah, yeah. Cuz initially I didn't I didn't know not being a rock so I'm you're around that crowd. Yeah, well, I got those two guys interviews for a while. Yeah, no big Rob. He's He's one of the founders of that club. Solid dude. Yeah, so I bought this this TJ thing dropped off keys garage. And like all we had was pirate you remember those days obviously and I'm like, I want to link it I want to get the best we can make it right and you know people are falling and readers and that's it. So the readers for ln t figured out the front he for links the front we buy a thorough buy through 2003 ish by thought of why 350 sM 465. Mike what's you know what's next, you know, concrete crank and so on. Like, let's just make it the best we can, you know, 17 inch Bill steens 42 inch TSL MRT beadlocks at five oh, atlis 6014 bolt like, literally I go the first time on trail, I show up this little slice. And I'm like, What's the hardest thing? Like all I see is videos like show me this. Show me what the hardest part is here. So I didn't have the learning curve, you know, driving around to it. And I'm 33 years and struggling theater because I showed up in a buggy. I was ready to party. That's how we started. That's awesome, though, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll be the first one a minute. I'm not a rock crawler by any means. But I mean, rock racing was the first day I was out. That was me. That wasn't rock racing back then. But it was me in that area. I mean, we were all on pirate. What was your name on pirate? There was just good. Be dirty. It'd be 50 I think yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, that was mentally what was in my picture. And yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I wasn't in the beginning. But I was in there. I think I had a low number not too super high. But uh, we just wheeled them and I mean, I wheeled every weekend like it wasn't a weekend like I worked and left on Friday, and I will that's all I did. And that's how she all started and then I can tell you as to how Nortel started I mean goes from there actually Yeah, absolutely. That's that's what this is right. So I'm wheeling doing stuff going to pismo and I'm in Pismo Beach all my friends we go there Thanksgiving right that's up huge down there. I go down there and racing guys have comp hold on I got this for 65 and if you know anything anything about a Granny Granny first a second the model the stop and start over? some reason these guys up the hill the photo by 350 and I'm like man, this is fun. Mike I gotta go faster. So I get home and I got a I think I don't a 98 Camaro. You know t tops didn't have a small back then but it would have flowed not like you have today. I mean, you're new here. Are you Speedwagon playing is just behind you as you walk right? Yeah, so I got home I got this Camaro back in the garage. I'm looking the motor and I'm looking back and forth motor the Jeep Jeep Camaro back and forth and like, man, they got to put these LS isn't these things like someone's got to do this stuff. And this is like 2005 and six, I mean, LS swap in a Jeep was, as everyone knows, I mean, it was that was that was like, I don't even it's like new phone. You know, it was amazing. So, you know, all we had back then was eBay. So I get on eBay and I buy a buy an LS one out of a Camaro with a fall of 60 from Florida from a wrecking yard and probably stolen who knows kids study on the wrecking yard. It's eBay I buy I get it. I get it home and I'm looking I'm like I don't know. I mean, I was mechanically inclined is from dirt bikes put up. Never done a motor swap. So me my buddies, they come over, you know, hey, we are swapping up LS one two a 465. Colin, we call the how engineering or thing is how the computer company like h o w e ll not the steering. And they're the only ones that have harnessed for a five wire harness for an LS I call them and they're like, yeah, we haven't first hand cars. My perfect one put them this rock crawler that I go, okay. I think it'll work. I'm like alright, sweet. We did the motor, swap my garage and Went back to pismo and I had a LS one man i was i was king shit and a rock buggy, right? And, and they just kept snowballing from there really, that was like oh six, and then I put an automatic in it. kept that with put a 400 in there. And then I was like, it's probably 2007 and I said, someone's got a racist stuff like someone's got to do this. There's racing somewhere somewhere in this country for this stuff. Yeah, we were running zarei in Middle America, but uh, you guys were kind of ahead of the curve out there on the west coast. I mean, it was not racing wise, though. zarei had the game right. So I get on those interwebs and I start searching and get on YouTube and XRP right. So I found XRP. And I'm like, oh, man, in the vivid video. My head is RJ Brown. I believe in the yellow truck. When in doubt on the step up, right, or cannabis sport. I guess that's his claim to fame. Also, I know he did much after that. But that's all I remember. And so and I remember looking at their schedule, and I said, west coasts, and I'm like their West Coast series and they came to Salt Lake City, Utah. I'm like, you're missing some states man. West Coast is a little farther west than that. So motocross background, I go to Prairie City, you know, hangtime warcross nationals there. And this time, I think war vor was still running strong back then. But I didn't know they were. I go to the state with a business. You know, management in my head and I write a business plan for this racing. I'm like, I'm gonna pull on these races and I'm gonna be the biggest promoter in this park. You know, like, I think I'm gonna wipe out Hank Damn, you know Hangtown ama motocross national, like it got my bigger than this. And I go in there and these guys, I'm, I'm 21. See? I'm like late 20s, I guess. And they're like, Who's this kid? Like, well, you look like a good plan. We're gonna let you try it. So they gave me a permit. Then in 2008, October 10 2008, I run my first race. And I literally build a motocross track with two rock piles that are like six rocks long. And there's two piles and the lid is everything you can do to get over them. And that race is actually called xR. A No, that's x. All right. It was called X to rock racing. Because in my head x t rock racing was I think it was extreme or something at a marketing buddy that was partners with me and partnerships and partnerships, but we said x t rock racing cuz I was gonna travel the country with this right? I mean, so x t was the name like we were going to we're taking the next level. We did the race, I lost a bunch of money, partnerships and partnerships 2009 I got another permit with the park and I had to make a new name. Norco rockeries was born. And then there you go. And you go, how many events have you put on under NorCal name to date? Hundreds since then, so we did the one and then 2009 in the park. We did a three raise so I literally came out of the box with a three raise series in 2009 and got some great traction 2010 The park was doing Park improvements and let me have one race and then I believe ultra for started in 10 or 11 and I lost also a min on there I was doing real good. And then I had that one race and lost my series. And then 2011 I've done three plus two ever since. So that's that come up. I mean you do 10 years 330 races thing how much time you have doing 30 races. Yeah, and what's crazy about precis is we build and complete tear down just like in the average every race I do personally I flatten that place back out like we're never there. Wow. What's the diesel bill on that? I'm most most races are anywhere from 15 to like 3000 I see that depending on equipment I have so you do the infield core set k wage so start the start finish the basically the big dick in the desert. How long does that take you guys to remember to build that every time every year we keep on getting cut on time. So we usually here's the plan for five days from start to finish but now we get bigger equipment a little bigger budget so we're able to do things a lot faster now. But in the beginning Yeah, we're like full six days on dozers So speaking of equipment for each of these races, so you go local rental company I haven't delivered. Yeah, usually I try to keep the money local like anywhere we go wherever whatever race it is, I try to give the support the local economy, the caterpillars, obviously Well, we're now in and they got rental accounts everywhere. And I have a national account so I can rent from any car dealership with my account not to go through the local dealership. scramble, I can just call and get my account number and they know we're good for credit and they just send out the equipment. That's fun. So you took something that you learned growing up working for your dad doing leveling all the dirt work from that you said you weren't good at it, but then you learned how to make jumps and ramps and basically cool shit. Yeah, I mean, I was really good with a shovel, you know, in the BMX days, so I could build I could build the job. Just take me a week, but uh, yeah, it's funny, my own Wasn't a he wasn't a real teacher. And that might be maybe why I wasn't as good as I needed to be on grading tractors, but um, I would say I'm probably 95% self taught in every big, big piece of equipment because of the gradient. We don't have the equipment. So I mean, now we build tracks with D sixes. I mean, we never own something that big. Our biggest dozer and fleet was like d3. Okay, okay. Yeah. So when you guys are building, let's say, tracks, you use total stations, do you? It's all I write it's all field all by Phil. No burden. I do it all by Phil. We know what the degree feels like. And now all the new dozers got these degree gauges on the dash and I'm like, Man, what degree was that face? I'm like, so then we start trying to build these degrees. And I'm like, just shut that I'm like, I put duct tape over the screen a couple years ago, cuz I just kept looking at the screen, like trying to figure out what degrees I was at. Make sure the blade was level. And I'm like, I don't even need this stuff. I can feel it. I literally just cover the screen. And I mean, I have a dozer right now here. And I was like, I just want to cover the screen up because it drives me nuts. Because every material pushes different, you know, and you can feel it but the screen you want to look at the degrees. You're like, oh man, I'm 3% to the left. My god, I gotta fix that. But really, when you feel you feel it, it's all about you. It's all about the level. The the other day the butt dyno and yeah, but don't know, but level. Now that I've now that that got got into my head that was you know, mill, so that to me in a conversation, I was like, I've never heard that before. Now, I've heard it like 10 times in the last week. Like, was I just not listening before? Like, whatever, by you. I was there. I mean, I think I would have caught that. But I didn't. So yeah, what is the big show that they put out in Vegas? It's like, every two years every five years? Not like concrete world or whatever. But it's the big heavy show. It's a conexpo. That's it? Yep. Every three years, every three years. And then was it supposed to be last year and they cancelled it because of COVID. They shut it down in the middle of it in COVID or something like that. And I mean, the equipment. I mean, you can go out and basically get in. Everyone hauls in everything. Normally, I'd say it's Sema for, for construction. Yeah, something else. I think that's pretty cool. I mean, I do like I do, like, you know, run a dozer much better than a skid steer, but I will run a dozer, I can run a track hoe, if someone will give me one bit the building of the tracks like I don't think I can get, you know, as I see, like, not the jumps, the jumps would be easy. I could do jumps, it's the bank, the banks that you guys do. Yeah, I'm very much in awe of that you don't lay it out that it's free hand and you're you push into you get it right, I'd be out there with like, a roll of a roll string, I drive in a piece of rebar, and then get my sweep so that I know that it's a you know, it's either, you know, perfect 150 foot, you know, horseshoe or an open or close at the end, you know, like, or closes and then you roll everybody as they come around in the hangar we're out. I don't know. Yeah, we've had some turn tunes like that, and on the lake bed, just because of space restrictions. But, uh, you know, and bird night, but we were, I mean, if you ever watched us build, I mean, we look like two, two drunk people on dozers like we criss cross each other. I mean, sometimes we bump you know, a little bump and run but I mean, between him and I like I mean, we know we're at all time and you know, we rough you know, I helped them rough everything in and he's getting to the point now, he just finishes everything, it's hard to have multiple, multiple people finish in turns or jumps. So he's pretty much handled taking that over and just finishes everything up. And then all you get on the water truck or something else. And you know, and I just let him do his thing. And he kills it. I mean, we we've got to the point of the jumps and the lips. And we've got to the point that all the cars fly somewhat flat. I mean, long as everyone's suspension tuning at this point, but back in the day, I mean, with nose divers, but now now, I mean, the tabletop we built this year was insane. I mean, the video clips of everyone just going for the distance that it was was amazing. It's it's cool to watch you know, it's a finished product for us and everyone enjoys it and the cars fly and it's it's what it's all about. One you're given the racers what they want, you're really giving the fans what they want. And then you're giving the marketing partners what they want those constant videos and clips and pictures of their racers, their cars, whatever sponsor that they have dollars behind and they have skin in the game sailing, I mean sailing and and I want to say it was uh oh, who's uh, who's Cody Eddington's marketing guy? Robert Mansfield. Mansfield he put together I'm fairly sure as Robert I think I know a clip you're talking about he clipped who who went further and it was he did for the other races but the 4400s I want to say wasn't Marcos went the farthest like yeah, Mark goes went big. Yeah. So yeah, Lorna. I mean, everyone. I mean, it's just it's it's, it's rad to see and it's I It's cool to watch the guys actually take off with their foot in it. You know, I mean, to see the guys actually just, you know, do something cool for the fans. And for everything else, you know, the content that comes out of out of It's amazing. Can we do something? Can I make a request? And you know, I make requests all the time and Dave will tell me fluckey why we're not doing that? Yeah. Some are, you know, a little crazy. What about, uh, you know, you can get the, you know, the, like football field marketing or baseball marking little thing with white, and Marcus off some 2550 7500 100? Yeah, down the face of your jump. And then on the live show, you know, and you may maybe get tribe, or Cody Wagner with laser net to burn out some, you know, two foot or three foot tall distance markers, you have spray painted, and then stick them into the ground. Yeah. And so when the cameras see and they were like, Oh, you know, probably insurance would be like, no, you're really trying to push them all the way until they wreck somebody is gonna go, it'll be who's racist over in the first 500 I want to do a show like that mixed into the hammers. You know, maybe every night, there's something packed, you know, like, you know, yet the front door, back door shootout, whatever it's called, whatever year it is. And, you know, like, you have all these nights of things going on, I've always wanted to do something on that and create a real short course, an idea has been been tossed out there. And you know, it may have came out that there was a slug bug race this year under the lights, which, I mean, I'm gonna say that I'm pretty sure that came out of my mouth just not was like bugs. So that thing was, it was cool. But I think I could pack that place. If we did like a two lap, fastest lap short course. Long Distance jump in those two laps, and just fill that place up, you know, and have something just super rad under the lights. Do you remember the Laughlin leap? I do remember the wall family I watched many times they judge how far the you know, in wasn't a night King will put the markers out and it'd be longest distance and came with us some money at it. And yeah, I mean, that's literally been my plan for a while and JT use, you know, go there. Dave was kind of good with it. And we just, there's just so much stuff packed on the week. And you know, I feel like it's gonna sound bad all the racers, but if we did it on early in the week, if your car broke in those two hot laps, you weren't gonna make it anyway, man, like, sorry for your luck. But like, at least you had a chance to lay it all out there and, you know, maybe win some real money and, and be part of a show that, you know, you may be, you know, top 20 guy, but you know, you're not, you're not in the show at the same time. So it'd be something cool to highlight, but you know, it fell through and now we got, you know, 15 events in a 10 day period. Now, unfortunately, the hammers need going ask people to be on that lake bed for so many days. That just keeps getting longer and longer and longer. Yeah, I mean, burden I did 22 days this year. I've done the longest I've spent 31 which I'll never do again. But uh, we're gonna definitely cut that down. We did some work some properties around there for a week, this year, but we're gonna definitely cut that down to like 11 or 12 days from here on out. I just can't do it anymore. Well, I want to get off on a sidetrack tangent here. Yeah, I'd seen you know, I've got a prerunner that's, you know, a street runner. It's not I wouldn't it's not a real prerunner I mean, I guess it does have 18 inches of front and rear travel on 40 so it's, it gets after it. It likes it likes the hammers. But you also have a prerunner I love your prerunner tell us about this bad boy white Chevy it's a yeah oh three Chevy cat I extended cab four wheel drive 20 I don't know 2628 inches of travel in the rear trailing arms. That's a dr dt tech front end bypass coil or package 16 or 18 inches of the travel on the front bumps on all four corners. Five three, just a stock five three ish full sleeper truck I mean full cage Okay. Here Brian Kirby did amazing dash in it for me Holley EFI dash, all embedded aluminum. The original fabricator was in Vf fab out of not San Luis Obispo but in that area, the same fabricator that builds rugged radios crazy builds his name's Nick amazing fabricated never met him bought bought the kid from the truck from a kid that his high school truck and Nick had worked on a here and there and it was it was be a diva diva bed kit and a bill whole back half and and i think Sandy Sandy Cohen had his hands on the geometry and the trailing arms and the shocks and it's all sleeper the shocks are under the bed. You don't even see him carries 230 sevens in the rear, some ammo cans, fuel cell training coolers, literally I mean, I've had a bunch of cars and off road world is literally the hands down the funniest thing I own in my fleet funnest thing ever, but so I knew you had one. I didn't know what yours was though. I knew you had this program because I've only seen videos from inside of it. So I knew That I knew that was why I didn't put together so there I am. I'm walking through hammer town and this looks like aside from it has pretty big tires underneath it It sits pretty stockish in height like height it's not it's not lifted it's not real high but it does sit low on the rear and you're like okay, that's it's got something going so there I am walking I think I was on my way over to the fun hover compound to see Lauren who is up never been there because he's a very scheduled at media circus in a week. But as I'm walking by I see it see see this truck and this cat I'm checking out I bought my phone I take a couple of pictures I see the it's linked and I'm like man because I'd love to do that to mind wow is for caged in that horse. Hey look go on like what it's I can tell I'm the one being yelled at. At this point. It's you hang your head out there you're eating lunch and you saw my reflection off of a vehicle next to it you're like who's looking at my truck and you saw my hat and you knew exactly who it was so you go to harass me like a totally scared me invited me in for lunch. I didn't end up eating with you but I hung out with you for a little bit and then we talked about the truck but and then we went out and you let me kind of crawl all over it inside it and and that is it's nice. It's an amazing truck. You know PRP made some made some awesome seeds for and then we got it we got it down. Jason Vander Veen from bt wire he went through gutted like normally my projects I'm pretty pretty thorough. So first when I first got it it went down to Kirby and Brian Kirby down south he you know, he preps Adler's cars and whatnot and amazing fabricator you know built one of the first if S cars out there took it down them they're heated the dash has guys got to the bottom prepped it weld washers made sure everything is all good because I knew nothing about any of it made sure the rack was good in and the or the steering assist I was in there and prepped it all took the shocks the king did all did all that you know that groundwork for me and I brought it home and then I want to rewire it because of all the stuff in it and you know the great supporter of us and so I dropped off of Jason's house and and I'm like alright man, we're just gonna we're gonna rip the harness out of it motor harness and we're just gonna you know, clean up some stuff Well, it turns into a full painless kit full Holly kid stripped everything out realize that you know, rewire everything from front to back. You know, Kali sends out some intake injectors and we pull the timing cover off I'm like hey man, let's just put a cabinet thing you know still keep it a five three and didn't want to put a bunch of power in it cuz I didn't want to deal with the you know transfer case and the foil 60 blowing up so I was trying to keep it somewhat mild because in the dirt it's a rock star in asphalt it's not I mean, you probably driven plenty of vehicles like that. And so we get into it pull the timing cover off and I swear the kid told me had the motor rebuilt at some point in time I have no idea how many miles are on the truck itself. Pull the timing cover off and look like a Pennzoil commercial. It was full of sludge and whatnot or Jiffy Lube commercial where those old ones were younger and I was like well well your exhaust bolts and trainee bolts away from pulling it out so we started it took them a motor guy motor guys amazing. I'm like well let's just clean it up. So here we are a full rebuild on a five three cam in it cleaned up the heads, all Holly uppers and I'm you know Holly owns sts turbos. So I call the VP over there and I'm like, Hey, you know, what do you think about one of those sts exhaust turbos and he's like, what do you mean I'm gonna build this prerunner and build and I'll think about doing a single turbo He's like, Alright, I'll send you on out you know, I'm like well, you know, we'll figure it out. So So box shows up at Jason's house and he opens it up he goes, What is this I'm like well you know you need a little power so it's running five pounds of boost sts exhaust turbo on the back behind the Behind the cab and now a little mile cam and it's rad I mean, I mean, I know it'd be like that make big power but bigger cars big bills and I want to take I want to go inside of a cobble and that thing and just have a good time and if it breaks down I can find out what three Chevy the transfer case for training and put it in there and get home. So that's that's my plan. Yeah, it's really reliable and fun. So have you had it in Mexico yet? No, no, I literally finished it. We got done wiring and tune and James Caulfield you had on another day he he did some tuning on it and I brought to the hammers with like four miles on it, and I left the hammers with 252 Yeah, that and now I ran into you over at Gomez brothers, maybe a day or two later, the guys over there. We're working on working on something on your back end. What was that about? Yeah, well, like you're saying are the rear is a little low, so rebid without chalking with King and as I drove it more, the rear started fading a lot more. So I needed more spring in the rear so we, you know, we go over there to to the boys and, you know, everyone's got a full service truck with the crane and their pit so it's just, you know, convenient to get over there. Without much travel in the rear, I couldn't get the shocks off at King. I mean, they're their big old jack when you lifted up high enough. So we hung out with the crane and pulled it off and put some springs on it. And it's I mean, it's better. It's still it still needs some love needs, you know, it's an older build. So it's got small bypasses on it, so it needs some real shocks for what it is man and what I'm into it. It's It's fun. It's amazing. Yeah, they're they're good. I can't imagine them. Well, I'll put it this way. So I actually bought a daily driver here recently to stop putting miles on my freerunner I, I don't plan and I don't intend to ever sell the thing I absolutely love. It's the funnest vehicle I've ever owned in life. And I've just hit 83,000 miles on it. And it's a 13 and I'm like, I'm putting 100 miles on it today. With our we moved offices and 50 miles each way. I'm like, this is stupid. This is stupid to be wearing. We're not a truck. I plan to keep forever on for wearing out. 40 inch tires. 100 miles a day. This is this is stupid. So I got something else. But yeah, like back to your truck. That's, they are so much fun. Yeah, and it's sleepers on 30 sevens won't fit 40s I don't think yeah, it's it's, it's it's rad. It's it's a fun truck. And I mean, I have a 4400 car that, you know, I built when I you know, had gone a car accident and quit racing or didn't get to race it and yeah, it's rad. I mean, I want to go Mojave trail. I just want to, I want to drive it. I want to do some cool stuff. I want to I want to you know, like, Phil takes the gladiator out, which already takes Gladiator and does his overlanding stuff. Like I want to do that. But I got no one to deal with. So I got to find someone to buy prerunner Yeah. No, I mean, seriously, I think what you're talking about, fix your rear springs, do the bypasses and then get it get one was roof top, get a roof top tip for it. Hang in there, just just below the top of the cab, take that thing to Mexico, park it on the beach. That's what I want to do to mine. I mean, now that I've got it retired from daily duty, that's what it needs it needs. If I want to take my kids and go over to you know, the beach here and stay the night and go camping or whatever, dude, we've got it. We've got a fun vehicle for it. But yeah, I've got a I got a brand new area. Robert from area bfhi gave me a brand new pop up tent. One of his actually malaba the dome, his brothers bought a home for me. And I got put on the gladiator we built but it pre renders an option to you know, to do that. So I'm pretty excited. I'm not like big Overlander but I mean, JT and I've talked about the trip, and you know, either doing razors or the chase truck or pre runners, you know, um, you know, JT, he's got 19 projects, too, so he can, he can stay concentrated on one just like me, I have a group that you know, want to do, and I mean, JT knows Mexico, and I'm getting to know it now. And I think it has been amazing. You know, I don't want to do the drive back because everyone dreaded the drive back as prima donnas that sound but there's plenty of trucks to go to Cabo empty or go full and they come back empty. So you know, get down there and you know, send the trucks back to San Diego or in sanada and take a flight and enjoy your trip home and spend a couple days in Cabo and just have a good time. I mean, I'm not a big relaxer, but I feel like that's on my list. Hey, keep me in mind for that and then I'll come in and give me enough heads up I'm start making them the modifications to my trek for something like like that. I mean, I'm you know, we're goal oriented. I posted a video earlier because it came from all German Motorsports they put up a video Yeah, I got on. I'm on their news newsletter list. I think a lot of people are a bit it's AGM and it's prep, and it doesn't any starts at and if you have three months or three weeks or three days to prep, that's how long your preps gonna take. So if you'll give me a heads up like I'll start getting some stuff going like Okay, wait six months. Okay, okay, so I'll order stuff but then it's going to happen in like the last six days so but I just need to know when that's gonna be for sure. Yeah, I mean, I want to do and you know, Dave's always days always invert adventure like that. That's right up his alley, you know, we have a great relationship so that that kind of stuff works and Dave's got tons of assets down there. And so it was JT so it's like I want to go with someone that has that ability and has those resources you know, and I mean, I'm all about the adventure but the adventure alone is not you know, that's an adventure but it's different not not my type Yeah, I'm with you and then you're the Hartman's live down there now Yeah, apartments are down there and you know, I mean, I got I got some buddies in Cabo at least you have vacation spots I got some friends that are farther down if I you know had to reach out and but yeah, that's why I want you don't want to do resorts I want to camp I want to camp on the beach to the resort you know, like vice versa you know not I don't want to go down and stay in five star resort but I don't want to go down and camp every night either. You know, I want that heavy, heavy medium mix, you know, get a shower here and there. And you know, I got to spend you know, 14 days and the 1000 with gravel last year. So I got to run sanka teen I got to run all this Tinker team model six times. This we did quite a bit of pre run and so I know I know the ones the one pretty well right now at least to thank a team. So I'm pretty solid there. I pretty much tell every talk with Dan will get food for the guys But outside of that stretch, we're on our own. Yeah. Why I can cross over to San Felipe. I know I know that side too. And I know this gets you powerline road to get over there. That's that's always interested in three in the morning. So you brought up, you know, ultra Well, we brought 4400 Yeah. You race skiing in the hammers? couple times three times back in the early days. 910 and 11. Yeah. How did that work out for you? Yeah, so that's that's a that's a good story. So I don't know I just I LC kid, you know, back then. Back then, you know, it was it was not the fastest 100 guys but the top 100 guys and qualify, right? I mean, it wasn't it was 100 cars and that was it. There was no give there was no no extra qualifying anywhere else so many is either you're qualified or ELC q Nelson q was like 25 to 40 cars back then it was insane. You know, I mean, I remember when Lauren shut up and knowing who he was and the guy qualifies LC Keaton wins. But Saul was in that realm and and i don't know what nine was, but I'm pretty sure 1010 was the year that I think I qualified my car four times. Well, you know, so this is how Roxy's relationship started up, you know, I've just used the the staging lineup, so you had a bullhorn, she's out there yelling you know, you can't see her over a tire but she's out there Yellen sees hear this noise. I feel like you just called her poor Roxy. So I line up and out with the first qualifying run. I think I roll something happens I roll set and then one of the runs I get all the way to back door and Dave and Jeff was back there back then. And they stopped me right at the bottom back door and they're like hey, we gotta wait for this recovery like they literally stopped me in the middle of my qualifying run now like nowadays, everyone needs to restart and go all over. Like I sit at the bottom of backdoor and wait for these guys to clear a car. So we're just sitting there you know, trucks overheating because that's how it was back then. And and we're sitting there sitting there sitting there and we one shot back door right which is was you know, something didn't happen back then. slawson Yeah, yeah. Well, before slawson right so saucer one shouting back door. We get to the second ledge and we're going right? So in 2010 like, right line was like the night before was amazing. Right line was killer. During qualifying that day, everyone was going left line. I'm like, whatever I'm gonna do what I pre ran, I go right line. What I do fully upside down on the roof, in front of everybody. You know, all by myself staying on top of the car. You know, this literally had a killer qualifying run there. Like, you're like in the top, whatever. You know, I got to that point in the bottom back door. They had my time, stop like you're killing you're going fast. You know, so I roll or whatever. And then I find I think it was Tim hammock from me, Dustin and Tim and the brothers. And then Tim had a qualified LLC. Bob didn't get his car done. So what do we do we get my car. Tell Dave Hey, I want to change the numbers what Tim's gonna call from my car. So I get in the passenger seat of my own car, never sit never sat over there. And Tim and I realized that like 30 cars later, and Roxy's like what is going on? I'm like, don't worry about it. We're here. We're a lot to drivers. So Tim, so I ride in the passenger seat and I think I don't know we didn't we didn't qualify. I don't I don't even know what happened at that point. And then Kevin Yoder had a spot and him and I are both on pit bull tires Michaels helping us out and Kevin didn't have his car done. So I call Kevin and Mike get your butt down here man like I am all you got to spot I got a car. So he drives all night night before the race on Thursday gets down there and I started the first lap and I go for it and that's the year we all set our limits for I don't know how many hours maybe like 10 I brought the car back in the first lap and I think I started in 98 and I brought the car and like the mid 30s I gave it to Kevin and I said here Good Good luck man. They had like one break lexical issue like car was broken half you know i pre ran coming out of sunburn on the back section there and not being desert section yep oil smooth when I pre ran driver Hey man like we're all good I know where we're at I hit him like this hold on man. This is what I do like I'm good at going fast. We made about halfway halfway down across the thing and we bumped in Broncos and the truck was flat obviously you know and then we hit so hard that it flex the chassis so hard that it alternator hit the upper link and smashed a brake line ripped it off but at full bump that was like three and a half inches away. So So I bring the car to Kevin I'm like we need brakes and this and that and blah blah blah and he gets out there and gets top of jack north or jack or somewhere up there and just the thing is quits fuel pumps don't want to run I mean, but we had a good run. It was fun. And then they got there must been 2011 cuz 2010 I got the hard luck award. You remember that? I do. I do remember getting that so I mean, it Yeah, I remember that being given out. Yep. So I ran out I ran. I got up back door. Obviously one of the top would be turned right over the Sandhills at. I broke an axle in our school bus or whatever. That whatever that route was at that time, so I was in three wheel drive. And Jeff and Dave like you're not gonna make it I'm like I'm gonna make it so we went back door and the second ledge my lead my co driver like this no one looked at Kodak back then but I did. And so I get it. He's like you're not gonna make it the sand hill on my my ass. I'm gonna get the sandal. So I get top of the sand hill. I'm so excited. I dropped down the backside and going left to go towards a whatever that little trail is we dropped down back then. Remember the name, but uh, and I blow front right tire 42 is pit bull. So now I got a flat and I got dropped off. Not tank trap. What's that trail right there? It's a notch off to the passenger side. Not sure it was. No, no, it's on the backside. What is the name of that trail? I'm on the right hand side. But when you drop that ledge, you even had a front right flat. So do I hit that rock so hard? I thought it came into the car. And I do the whole rest of the desert section. It's all twists and turns on the front right flat tire and I get to the finish line Dave like you made it you know everyone's cheering Yeah, that was a fat hidden dodgeball hard luck award last one not to qualify. Literally all that prep and time and, and Dave's like just be ready. Be ready to start in mind. someone's not going to show up you can race. So here I am. On the schoolyard waiting for corporate dress for prom. waiting. Everyone starts Dave just looks at me. Cyber Oh, that was that was my career. And then you turn then that was it. That's all she wrote. I was building a new car and and had some other life stuff happen. And and then yeah, I mean, that's it. That's gateway. And now I build it or build the short course or whatever, which in shall we say you go but you when you go back to Norco, you still got your Nortel series going on. And somewhere in there. You actually went and invested in a good timing system. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I wanted to make it more legit. And stopwatches weren't cutting it. And everyone was kind of having timing issues. And ultra four was kind of still I don't know, what if they were really kicking the series off yet. But yeah, so I went and found a timing system for motorcross and, and I spent the money and and taught myself and did some online classes and went for it. And Dave's like oh man, you got transponders. I'm like, Yeah, he's like, can you come time I racism I guess you're I don't know how to do them. But we'll you know, figure it out. Like you at least we have something's better than a stopwatch. And that was a that will definitely there's not enough money in this world to time a race for Therefore, I love Dave Cole, we have a great relationship. But he wants his results in two minutes after the race. And there's there's too many too many things. Too many things you if the transporters are reading or one's not reading or one falls off, there's just too many variables. And I never want to put someone there putting them wrong. And I thought and thought and thought to make sure that didn't happen. And they happen here and there. But uh, yeah, it was a very timing is is insane, man. It's, it's the most important part of the race, no matter what you do, or say, that makes or breaks everything. And obviously over time, we've had that trial and error, right? Yeah, that's so that's kind of anywho you were for the longest time, but not knew you knew you. And then was the 29th sorry, 2019 king of the hammers. Was that the bat or 22? They blended together. 2020. Where? Yeah, 2020 was the one where between Marcos and Eric Miller and Josh Bleiler, Bleiler wins, Marcus rips that arm off. And it comes down to, you know, Eric, being you know, second place until a day later, you know, when we figure out figure out the timing that there was this it was actually more than that, because JT sins sins, me the, well, people are going all the way to YouTube. And they're, they're going off the live feed, and they're checking it across there. And then, you know, people are hounding JT and at that point, people were coming to me that if it weren't with a talent tank would have never launched had it not been for the issues around hammers that you feel like drivers want, they wanted a place to talk like that. And not not get any voice. They needed a voice and, and I was already kind of in that spot. And I'm, you have had, you know, a good relationship with Dave and a bad relationship with Dave and currently Dave and I are on the outs but those fences will get mended or bridges will get built back. I'm not worried about that. Yeah, we're both good guys. And but we're both hardhead so I get that so don't take wouldn't have existed it had not been for that but so JT, you know. Yeah, I'm there's texting, maybe going back maybe was a phone call. JT goes, man, I've got the spreadsheet. Let me let me send it to you. And he goes, verified. Yeah, we're good. And he sends it to me and within five minutes, and I'm, by the way, Dave is an Excel guru too. So Dave, just hadn't seen Thing is, within the first five minutes of me looking at it, I was like, Hey, you got Marcos looks like he leaves the line at, I don't know, 29th spot. And it was some other car and, and I'm like this jumps out here the and you just you run some, some splits and little formulas off the times and you realize it throws red flags. And there was like five cars that had red flag issues go back to JT and you guys knew of like three of them. And two of them weren't known. But Marcos was one of them. And it was like it changed the podium. And so it was like, I don't want to. So the best part about that before you go any farther is I the last year that we timed in my team time was 2019. Yeah, it was the it was the brand name. Yeah, but you were but you were thrown under the bus. And all I did in 2012 was supply the transponders. Yeah, that's that was it? That's exactly right. And so, so there was that. And so it was a problem. And everyone's like, you know, the sanctity of the results, right? was, you know, was was challenged? Yeah. And that was a that was a thorn in, ya know, that was a thorn in Dave's side. But it was also this this issue with, you know, the drivers and then even then the sponsors? He knows, because there was I think there was something they put out, you know, press releases like a week, and then turns out they didn't win some things along those lines. Well, then what we had another we had a timing issue, the very next race, and then it was like, okay, we ended up with with with USAC. But not I'm happy with you sec. I think that was the smart call. It's not there anymore. But yes, yeah. But it was it was removing it was a de risking you for de risking it. Right? Do you feel was able to look and say we have this neutral third party verifying This is announced, we're going to take their results, which worse is handling in house, but there's a cost to that. Right. And I get saved trying to save the cost? Yeah, but you ended up going down this path because john good B ends up being the one who looks at it ends up being the scapegoat. Yeah. And that wasn't it at all? No, yeah. And my thing is, it goes back to, like, we talked about the wrap stuff earlier about graphics and stuff is like, I have skin in the game, right? These are my, these are my friends, my peers, you know, a lot of these guys I see outside, you know, of the world, and they raised my series, you know, and, and I can say, Intel, this year, a side by side event, which was a whole different ballgame. I never put the wrong top three on the podium ever at a NorCal race, you know, and we had some, you know, bumps and scrapes and battles before stuff. And I don't know if I could ever take 100% blame of any of those. But I had skin in the game and that and it mattered to me, but I wasn't there. But I'm never I'm black and white. Right? It's it's, there's no gray area, timing is timing. And I don't I mean, I can manipulate whatever I wanted to in that system. But there was never that way. And I wanted the guys to have a fair race and and be treated and, and they're paying the money to be there. And they should have a legit scoring system. And that's how it all started. You know, and and it was hard because you know, if it's if it's money race, you can't read the cars, you can't, you can't get your manual backup 100%. And like, I mean, I always had a team scoring with me. And David always, you know, there was, if you have too many people or you know, whatnot, or what why is this person here and like, because we need a team, this takes a team, everyone's here and they spend the money because it's the most important part. You know, you can't there's no, there can't be gray area and timing. So I'm glad someone else is doing it. And the amount of the amount of time and effort that I have in it or having it with them. It there's not enough money in the world to stress for that. It's just it. There's not knowing and you brought you brought from the crux of the issues. You know, it's not like we're road racing Porsches here. It's not at all it's no, you're off road racing sledgehammers, and you're bashing them on rocks, or you go to nice coast racing, you're running them through what we saw this past week, you know, just mud slop. You know, these guys look like I saw the video on the Internet of ultra for racing from Kentucky, it was pigs rolling around in the mud. That's, I mean, you figure the transponder in it reading correctly every time. So the scoring guys have to some cars, if they didn't read they they've got to look at a clock and throw in a manual entry. And that, you know, there's some accuracy to that and some inaccuracy to that it's sometimes better than nothing. But it's not foolproof, and I think we need to step back and like look at that and go, is there a better system out there? Have we made the best system out of the best system that's out there? And this is still where we're at and we should be okay with this is what it is? And I think that's, at least for me, I think that's where it got I mean, I've written down some of the issues the Nationals, and what I saw out of the USAC stuff was they kept not not only did they have the transport the transponder didn't work. They had redundancy with a video. They had video sitting at start finish. And the times were synced up. So I was like okay, It was very cool to see the transparency in ultra for making that change to Lin confidence back to timing. So you you mentioned you sex not there anymore. So filming there's a new is a new company is live live timing I think it is. It's who they are. The guys are software programmers, they know their system. They seem to be legit. They're still working through some of the stuff but I think it's good. I mean, I literally I mean, I just look at him eyes laugh I watched the guy Moab run up and down the start finish line, make sure I want to transponders on make sure they're working. You know, and I did that at kth. I did it every race and I don't envy what they're doing. But it's a is I don't think it's USAC anymore. I think it's a it's called Live timing. And the guys seem legit. I talked to him when I questioned him. And, you know, I played down and he didn't know I was so I got to answer quote asked questions. If I know anything about and back. I didn't know anything about what they were doing. And he answer all the questions correctly. So the thing is, is anyone that's not an industry or in our, in our in our field, if there is a non read in the camera and as a mud car, and you can't read it and you don't know that car, you don't know it's Eric Miller's front end. That I mean, thankfully, the backup camera or the camera footage, and JT can figure that out, obviously, I mean, he knows the cars just as well as anyone else. That's part of the hard part, you know? Absolutely. And so we, I mean, you see how they can take you but I'll say the first place I saw that being used Michael, mechanical and thrown in there, Alan O'Neal at Nationals. That was kind of his job. What I witnessed was the start finish, guys, if they didn't get a read, and he was the one he knew what the cars were, he knew who the driver was. And he would call out who it was. And then if the transponder was correct, right that they got this check, right? Yeah, that's who it was. But if it didn't read, they already had the name. But I can imagine you miles and Pam go through that. Especially like a race like we just saw at a rush Kentucky where after turn two or turn three, you know, just after where we're handsome j rolls the cars. They're all Brown. Right? You have to at that point, you need to you're going off of silhouette, you know the shape, like you can tell that, you know, a Trent five car from Miller car from, but a lot of them still look the same once they're all rolled around in the same brown mud. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that was that was the shark fin thing the GT brought in, you know, the shark fin in the back of the cars. But the problem with the manual backup is if you are looking at the shark fin that's not an accurate time either. You know, you already missed him by seconds. Yeah. So they're also competitive now that the races are coming down to seconds seconds matter. You know, what did the sample you pay 250 a week in a week ago, it came down to Menzies winning over 280 miles oberleutnant millon, he won, if I that I may be wrong, somebody correct me and yell at the radio right now. I think it was like 28 seconds. Yeah, I mean, I've watched him in Phil Burton and UTV You know, that's a desert champion multiple years in a row I watched him come to the back of the pack and win by 20 seconds after Vegas to Reno I mean, just all the racing and all the fields to get the guys everyone has to step up the game so that it's important you know, and ultra for Best of the desert score whatever it may be it's it's definitely insane and that's why the short course that's why you know, we ventured out and had some desert stuff Dave and I and and that didn't go well for us and it wasn't our forte and we let that go and and but short courses it's easy it's it's the lap traffic but you know who lens it's not that hard to mess up and really that we use transponders just for laptops people can know how fast they are fast or you know and qualify and do some other cool stuff with it and and but that's why I like short course I mean I don't I dread doing endurance races as as as a promoter at the top you know me helping is one thing but endurance or desert is not doesn't sound fun logistics none of that none of that sounds a very amazing short courses easy a spectator friendly, you know, and 123 is pretty pretty easy to distinguish. So what do you think about the guest series? I guess I mean, I think it's good I mean, there's a void to be filled right? I mean, a bunch people try to jump on the bandwagon and fill in that void and and I'll be the first to admit that I flew down a couple weeks working in the hammers and looked at all the same tracks and you know, I thought about us you know, socail series or how are you on you know, SoCal rock racing or SoCal anything but logistically for me I mean, Northern California is my home and and I've kind of owned the Northern California area and and in short course racing and I don't have the time or core the or the I guess the drive to do another series down there. So I'm glad they they picked it back up and it looks like they had a good turnout. I don't know what what gas is gonna make better than Lucas did. But there's a void to be filled and I wish the best form and I know Dave's behind the scenes and, and guys with the same cruiser on it, so it shouldn't be that far off of Lucas. Gotcha. Oh, that's what I thought. But I didn't know if they had you involved with, uh, with track maintenance. Yeah, we talked about it for a little bit, but they have all their own guys. And I mean, I honestly don't have time to, you know, prep all those tracks and everything we do and yeah, they Dave introduced me the other guy and and he's like, I'm What are you gonna do for maintenance? And he said he, he's got also hold Lucas crew. I said go then for my work for me. Yeah, freeze me. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and, you know, and to me, I used to do a lot of stuff for Dave and I still do Dave, you know, help them out. And it's, it's for fun. You know, it's not a business. But at this point, that that kind of venture would be full business decision. And I don't think they'd like those numbers on paper. Yeah. Well, I don't think anyone likes those numbers. On paper, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, you got to prep the track and water. Yeah, exactly. So um, I've got a handful more more questions here as I get to the end of the session, but I want to jump into is basically my show, I've asked you everything you you know, I wanted to know, is there anything that you want to bring up and they would cover everything that you want to cover? Now go into my last last things I want to get out of, you? know, I think we're good. I mean, just so what makes a good course, in your opinion, a good old, I'm going to call for that. Not not a desert course not a short course, in ultra for what makes it and I bring this up in the context of we've got to move nationals. There's a conversation about you know, the drivers love Oklahoma. But it sucks for everything else. Right. Hotels, spectators. It's just it's not that good for that. Reno, Reno seemed like it had everything right. Wild West had great for spectators, the crews love it. It was really hard on cars. That was the only negative I heard. I want to hear from john gibby. What, in your opinion, makes a great ultra for course, for a national championship, right? I mean, location is key, like Oklahoma makes sense for location right middle the country. It makes sense. But does it? I don't know that. I see. Now granted, yeah, it's Central. But a majority of the racers and Shannon Welch's who told me this and I went and looked at it and a majority of the ultra for racers. They're from your neck of the woods, right? They're from Northern California is the glut of ultra for racers come out of there and it's the Reno Tahoe area and then the Sacramento area. The old Pirates of the Rubicon area. I mean, there's there's so many racers from that area. There's some So Cal guys are some Arizona guys, there's some Colorado guys. And then there's a spring in New Mexico. Yeah, then there's a sprinkling over the rest of the country. But the glut of them are in NorCal. So from a central location, I don't feel that Oklahoma's real central In my opinion, I think there may be like a that would be the people pleaser statement out of me, I guess. Yeah. But that's what I'm getting at. I mean, obviously, it'd be amazing to have it you know, on our side but as far as the National and national championship track I mean short course is probably it's got to be a spectator friendly event for all for all reasons right for exposure for content for spectators for drivers that you know people will reach the drivers I mean, and be able to watch them and do the battle on the course I mean, short course makes sense was why was why was so good. I had a lot of seating, a lot of grandstands had amenities. Cell phone service was terrible there. But I mean, it is what it is. But I think a national championship should have everything it should be short course should be fast as you slows be technical, he should have rocks. I mean, it could be it should be something that, you know, while bless was or something we built, and to show all talents, you know, and and i think that I mean, it'd be rad if it was on the side. I don't know where and when I mean, they firmly firmly is an option then I got a lot of work to do because it places new, but I don't know. I don't know if that's on the table. Women. That's that's all up in there. Rumor and conjecture. Yeah, yeah. All right. So I'm gonna start a new thing. This is a you're the guinea pig. And I'm gonna ask everybody else hopefully in the future, I'll try to remember to do this. We'll see. This is the one thing I'm going to change up on this one. As we close out, I think, you know, the music that we listen to says a lot about our mindset at this point or juncture in our life, right, you know, various things and I was going back to I swear it was like a mini trucking magazine from the 90s where on like, when the last pages it showed, like, what's in the CD changer and like listed the 10 CDs they were listening to and they were all West Coast stuff. You know, I'm, yeah, I'm in Kansas, right? We had George Strait, and that was every single year George Strait now, so I'm gonna ask you a question, john. Top three songs. Man, that's a tough one. If anyone knows me, well, I'm I'm the No radio on while I'm driving because I'm either on the phone or I'm thinking so, I mean if you go like to old Rubicon days I mean, it might be I come in a sluice box and I'm coming out of India so maybe ludicrous move out the way. All right? Some some like old school rap. So move bit if so I'm not really good with song names either or who sings them. I got a funny story about that got me in trouble quite a bit, actually. But, uh, I don't I mean, you know, maybe some, like, if I want to get going, or if I'm in the dozer and I'm, I've seen something going it's, you know, like Pandora, like a, like an offspring or Green Day mix, you know, like that, to see that kind of punk like old school punk that actually it was, you know, beaten, not, you know, not metal, but you know, that kind of music. I couldn't tell you a song in that realm. But in there, and then I feel like lately it's been if I am driving, I've been caught with a radio on lately, which is kind of rare. And it's been just country like, and I don't really have a genre, I just kind of listen to everything. And you know, I mean, my dad was Garth Brooks fan. So I got to see Garth Brooks a couple times. And like Florida, there's a lime. They're pretty rad. I got to see them at SEMA. That might have gotten trouble because I might have recorded the beginning intro like, hey, check this out. I'm at some concert. I don't even know where it is. I know the song sounds familiar. And send it to somebody else. And she was like, that's my favorite band. And like, goes the same every year with me. And this is the one year that she doesn't go and, and she's like, real cool. So you're under their face. Right? Yeah, they didn't go over so well. So yeah, that's I mean, I think I don't Yeah, but that's, that'd be my music. I guess. If it's on. That's what, that's where we go. I asked you the question. So I can't make fun of your choices. I just I wouldn't be neutral on them. But now I know, a play for you. You know what? Well, next time I see you. Yeah. I mean, it could be some like NWA and the prerunner when we're when we're passing everyone on billing road. I mean, you can choose a song but you can guess which one it is, you know? Yeah, exactly. It's just, you never know. Like, I don't put some, you know, have this funny, I got these hard drives of music for my buddies used to be DJs. And they're never on anything. And I never put music on my phone or iPads ever, but whatever's in my iTunes account. If you played the playlist on my phone, you'd be like, I don't even know where the music came from. I'll be on the airplane listening like trying to sleep. And it goes from Britney Spears to Stone Temple Pilots to to Garth Brooks to I mean, her Beastie Boys like it's like one song of like, every like, I don't even know how I got on my phone. It's like, that is what I got. Musical. Tourette's is insanely out of control. And then also there's like a whole album of CCD or was that created? CCR? Creedence Clearwater Revival? Yeah, like and I don't know who they are, but they're like, awesome. There'll be a whole album for them. And then also in one run random mic to short song will come on. Like, it's just, it's insane. But yeah, I mean, you know, I wasn't a little writer world. You know, I was young kids. I mean, to short Tupac. I mean, all that you know, everyone thinks they're gangsters some point in their life right? Yes, especially if you grew up in you know, the 90s right. I mean, if you live next to Folsom Prison I mean, how much harder can you get? Yeah. Oh, man. Well, Mr. JOHN good be Wow, I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation man. I didn't know you like I don't know you. I mean, here's the thing about that. I feel like I know you I feel like I knew you beforehand like cuz you're a friendly guy gonna walk up to you and I have walked up you the first I didn't even start with this the first place we met physically and shook hands 2020 Ultra for nationals in Oklahoma. That's not even that's what is that eight months ago nine months ago it's not that long ago the first time we physically shook hands so everybody that's how friendly this guy is that you know that was the first time the second time I ran into him physically in person was at hammers this year and him yelling at me inviting me in for lunch so great guy john goobie Thank you for coming on the talent tank and man just kind of fill us in on who you are what you do and just everything about you. I mean you just very very curious to me. No worries. Yeah, I mean this really i mean you know I created one more thing about Norco rockeries and I created a series or tried to create a series that you are raised you know as a racer my whole life I wanted to create something that everyone else wanted to be part of you know and whether it be grassroots or compete with ultra for which you know our be a feeder series whatever it is like I want to create a series that you could come everyone's family just like ultra for but even closer and you know kept kept the cost low. The reason intense and the payouts high and you know, it's not about the money because we're racing you can afford it but it's nice to take home a couple $1,000 check and and that's what I tried to create and Norco rock racing is still grassroots but you know, it's legit when you show up to show the battle. I mean, there's still some of the fastest guys in the Contrary there, I can attest to watching your heat races this past weekend. Online. You got you had a live feed. That was new. That was a throw in like open wheel tire to tire. legit. And again, Ron prindle in the old hippie Hiller you know what a shit like when he went for it? I mean, I almost found myself jumping up and down like it was legit. Well, congrats on pull off that race. Be safe, have fun and Holly LS fest this week, and hopefully everyone everyone hears this, we'll find out that it's super successful. And the track you built was exactly that super successful. And we never hear another word about it, right? Yep. That's all we need. Yes, it's more of a demo now and just but uh, there's some big some big gap doubles in the content coming out for some of the terror crew and other guys would be hired is going to be insane. There's not there's no tabletops it's literally all big gaps and a big nasty set of whoops, with a jump going into them. So that's what they wanted. So I sort of built I will check out their Instagram before that stuff goes live because our crew is good about posting some some amazing stuff. Oh, man, what a show. Glad I was able to get you on here, john, and thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule between your own racing. You're hosting your own races, LS fest ultra for stuff plus business, concrete and wraps and man you're you're busy guy. Oh no when you sleep, but man, thank you for coming on. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. All right, not everybody. On that note, we're out.

Intro/Outro: 1:41:29

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