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The Talent Tank
The Talent Tank
EP 32 Ryan Miller
A play on the triumph and losses in performance and life. The Talent Tank podcast will navigate the inner workings of lifestyle, lives, family, teams, careers, programs, and technology in and around the offroad motorsports industry. What breeds success with your Talent Tank on full, failures when its on empty. From the journey to the Starting Line to take that Green Flag, on to exploring trials and tribulations on and off the track in pursuit of victorious achievement and the Checkered Flag.
When we look at the long standing race teams in the Ultra4 Racing family, one of the first that comes to mind is Campbell Enterprises out of Gilbert, Arizona. On this installment of the The Talent Tank we get a look inside race and recreational operations with a head first dive with Ryan Miller @ryan_miller_26 the new fill in driver in the Campbell stable, driving the 35AZ for Bailey Campbell @baileycampbell35az. Ryan has been a staple in the Campbell pits for over a decade, co-driving for Shannon, Weyland, and Bailey at points along the way. Heavily involved in prep, and strategy, he's become something of a defacto crewchief. Join along as we discuss Ultra4 Moab, Rebelle Rally, Flatfender Jeeps, and how Ryan came to be the go-to driver of the #35 Ultra4 Racing 4400 car.
After the Checkered Flag-
It's the stuff of legend; the U.S. Army requested a vehicle—and drove off in a hero. The Willys MB, its spirit forged by the fire of combat and honed in the heat of battle, seared its way into the hearts of warriors fighting for freedom. Fierce emotional bonds often developed between a soldier and his "jeep" 4x4. The faithful MB earned a place in every GI's heart, in every area of combat, in every conceivable role.
The tough, simple, Jeep became the GI's best friend—second only to his rifle. One MB was even awarded a Purple Heart and sent home. General George C. Marshall, US Army Chief of Staff during World War II, and later U.S. Secretary of State, described the Jeep as "America's greatest contribution to modern warfare". Scripps Howard WWII Reporter Ernie Pyle once said, "It did everything. It went everywhere. Was a faithful as a dog, as strong as a mule, and as agile as a goat. It constantly carried twice what it was designed for and still kept going."
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Let's drop the green flag on this episode of the talent tank podcast. With your host Wyatt Pemberton bringing you the best, fastest, most knowledgeable personalities and ultra for and off road racing.
Wyatt Pemberton :Here we go back for another installment of the talent tank on this glorious day. I'm glad everyone tuned in for this amazing individual. I'm looking at here on the Skype screen. Ryan Miller of Campbell Enterprises. Ryan, how are you man?
Ryan Miller :That was lap three. We started off pretty good. We've pre ran Mike and I, we picked our pace before the you know, before we even qualified, and we knew this was the pace we're gonna run on race day. This is what we feel comfortable with. This is what we're smooth at. This is where we can run the car. This is where we need to be careful. Lap three. I don't know what happened. We had picked off a couple cars here and there. We're right right behind Vaughn. And we're just in a little gravel wash. It didn't have any rocks. Nothing. And all of a sudden we heard tires go flat. And we're like, is that our tires? Like, there? There's nothing to run over here. Like there has to you know, and we're like, I mean car feels kind of Alright, it feels weird. But it I guess they were going down slowly. I went back and watch the live footage just to see what what happened. And you could only tell the rear was flat by then. But by the time we you know, we decided we'll just you know we got like two miles to go to the pit. Let's just take it easy. Get into the pit, the pit will be faster changing and then us getting out somewhere on the side of the hill out here. By the time we were going towards the uphill towards the pit. We knew we had two flats then. And same side. Yeah, yeah. Same side passenger side. It's funny, because when I went back and watch the live feed, everyone that crossed that camera where we had the flats, right? We're like 90%, passenger side flats. And I'm like, there's nothing there. I don't understand why we you know what happened? So that was kind of a mystery. But going back and watching it I guess we were we were in first then. And I had no clue. We were just running our race at the pace that we thought was was going to be alright. And, and put us up near the front, you know, and we just wanted to get Bailey a solid finish. You know, little did we know and people told us after the race. Hey, you guys were in first, you know those first couple laps? And we're like, wow, okay. It didn't feel like we were, you know, abusing anything or running too fast or anything. We knew we had passed a couple. Couple of the big dogs, but we did you know, qualify you qualified really well, too, though. Yeah, we were 11 Yeah. Which normally I don't like qualifying. Because, you know, there's guys that that'll take chances at certain things. And, you know, that's not my role in this is. I'm not out there to put that car on the pole. I'm out there to get near the front and however the cards fall that's that's how they fall in. You know, we're trying to get Bailey a solid finish. But yeah, we were really happy with our 11th qualifying position because we knew we were we were in a good spot to start the race. You know, we were behind the Gomez Brothers, Cody Addington, Loren Healy, Vaughn Gitten, Shannon Paul Bailey, you know, all those guys. And actually, when we had those, those two flats, we had passed, everyone but Paul Bailey, Shannon, and we were right behind Vaughn at that time. I mean, that was outstanding. So there's, there's a handful of guys that are kind of like advisors that bounce ideas off of melt people off of and bounce conversation off and get background started. Just advisors, just a good core group of folks that are involved in it for and they knew that we were set up for this week. And so they start getting texts. They're like, Ryan Miller is on fire. This dude is killing it. Like Where did he come from like that, but they knew they knew you know, your background. They knew the story, but at the same time, they're like, Why haven't you been driving longer? Right? Well, it's Bailey's car, you know? Yeah. Why didn't Bailey get pregnant sooner? Dammit, Bailey. No, I am. I mean, to be honest, I've actually raced on a very similar course there before for a few years in dirt riot. I was comfortable with the course because I knew about 60% of it, and I knew what could hurt you and what what couldn't the rest of it wasn't that bad. We already knew our pace. We already picked it before the race started and we said this is how we're going to run. We're gonna be smooth. We're gonna try not to kill tires. We're gonna get into the finish. So
Wyatt Pemberton :So what did you think about about the course Did you think ultra for put on they put put together good course. That's good. A company that they they manage.
Ryan Miller :Well, I, yeah. I told JT and Dave, they did a awesome job setting up that race. I actually talked to Jake to JT after pre running about the course and it. I mean, it's a course where you don't need, you know, 850 horsepower. It's a driver course.
Wyatt Pemberton :Now, one of the pieces of feedback I got was like JP Gomez saying, He's never been so sore after a race. As that race, he was super sore on Sunday, Monday, versus k away. He wasn't sore at all, after k, h and k, which is hours and hours and hours longer. He said it was just brutal on the body. Is that fair?
Ryan Miller :I didn't feel that way. I know, the course itself is I talked to Bailey a little bit ago. And I was telling her I would compare it to if you took out all the desert at Keio Ah, and only raised the rocks. This was still more than that, though, there you go. You know, it's definitely a driver course. But I don't know. I just felt our we had our car setup good. And it you know, we were driving it hardware we could and taking it easy where we needed to take it easy. And I didn't I didn't really feel, you know, beat up at all. I mean, I actually talked to Levi surely. And he said, I gotta be honest with you. I gotta ask you a question. Do your arms hurt? And I said, Yeah, actually, they do. Because there's so much steering going on. Because every 50 feet, you had to make a turn.
Wyatt Pemberton :Oh, that'll wear you out. Yeah, you were running. First. You were having a great run until you weren't right. Yeah, what didn't ultimately end up being your issue?
Ryan Miller :Well, the two flats slowed us down significantly, especially when we pulled into the pit. Because despite the two flats, Shannon also flat it on the same lap on passenger front, go figure. He pulled into the pit. They said like 20 seconds ahead of us. So they're working. They just got the jack under his car, and we pull in right behind them. We had already warned him we have a flat tire. So they knew we were coming. I don't think they knew that we were that close behind him. So they all look over at us as we pulled in. And we're like, oh,
Wyatt Pemberton :you both aren't supposed to be here at the same time.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, well, Brian pulled in behind us too, with a flat. Oh, so we had three cars in the bid at the same time with four flat tires. So that was kind of a cluster, if you will, you know, they were only set up to pick one car at a time. So we had to wait till Shannon was done before they could fit us and they had to change to tires. And then and then Ronnie finally got to take off. So you know most of those positions we had gained physically we gave up which wasn't you know, we're still good on time. But we ran laps for 567. real clean, no problems, no issues, we actually finally asked the pit how we were doing after we finished our seventh lap and they said your fifth physically we're not sure on time. And I guess I was I was up there on time to at least fifth. We ended up making it to the top of Green Day. And same spot passenger front flat. He got to be kidding me. But that one, it wasn't just some random thing in the bottom. I actually like clipped a rock that was in the bank. It was 100% my fault. And I was like well, we're fifth physically, we got a half of a lap to go. Let's just limp it to the finish. We started driving. We ended about a quarter more away through the lap. So we're about three quarters through. And there's one hill climb that you got to go up before you descend down into strike ravine. And it wouldn't go up the hill. Like what's going on. So I backed up, gave it a little throttle. Still nothing in the front end just kind of fell off sideways off starting up the hill. So I knew that we had nothing in the rear end. So I check transfer case shifters all good. My co driver jumped out. I gave it a little throttle to spin it and he said yeah, drive shafts spinning and I'm like, okay, like obviously something's wrong, but there was no noise in the car. No clunking no grinding, no nothing. So we were just baffled as to what could be wrong. So we decided, well, this is the last hill climb. If we can get up this we can get to the finish and we're getting to the finish. We changed the front tire. So we had two good tires on the front. And Mike pulled out on the 1000 1500 total feet of winch line. I'd say we went all the way we were wanting to treat a treat a rock. There was a broken car on the hill. We went to more trees, more rocks, we got it to the top of the hill and Mike was absolutely spent and he jumped in. We went down the hill down to Britney Spears. We had to pull winch for like two feet and Britney Spears just to make the pivot up around the rock. I just kind of jumped it up on there, got it around and cooked on a rock on the driver rear and he went to this off that and we drove it to the finish from there in front only. But obviously we gave up a ton On time doing that,
Wyatt Pemberton :yeah, that's and that's racing. Right. The other
Ryan Miller :thing that added to the fun was, uh, the impact in the car didn't work. So we had to change the tire manually, so that it took a little bit extra.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's why Michael Pendleton gets paid the big bucks.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. There was there was a couple times going up that hill, he ran back and he needed some water because we were pulling winch. The winch on the front of that cars got, I don't know, 200 feet of rope or something. And there'd be times where I couldn't even see him. He's around the corner in a tree, hooking me up. And then he'd run back around the corner and tell me start winch and you know, we did that a dozen times up that hill.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's what makes for a long day. But that guy was gassed.
Ryan Miller :Yep, yep. But we were we were determined to get that eighth lap in so
Wyatt Pemberton :and so what was your final finish?
Ryan Miller :We ended up 17th. We were the last car to finish on the last lap.
Wyatt Pemberton :But but you got it done. That's what matters. And that's part of that's part of you. That's part of your mantra this like, I don't quit.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, that's one thing. I was talking to Bailey about. before and I was trying to come up with I don't think we've ever DNF a race in her old solid axle car or the new imfs car.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's a good stat, just keep you always got it to the finish. That's an amazing stat. Well, I want to I like to continue to add a couple more Moab questions here. But these are these aren't necessarily about the race or your race. This is kind of about the race in general. And these are kind of a little bit a little interesting little, maybe hot topics, as I call them. As we exit the race. There was some a lot of discussion about the race course width. And people were had witnessed what they believe they witnessed people to a short course without, you know, going into names. I don't think that's fair to discuss. But what I think what is fair to discuss is, you know, there's nothing in the rulebook that talks about race course width, and which I wouldn't think there would be because you can't make the same race course with work for Kentucky or work for Rouse creek or worked for Oklahoma, or work for, you know, Fallon or work for Vegas, especially Moab, or
Ryan Miller :yes or no, there was times where we literally hung 180 terms and went back to the same way, we just came 50 feet to the side of it.
Wyatt Pemberton :Exactly. So to go, you know, what I've heard was circulated back to me is no, it's 150 feet, either side of the centerline of the course. And, and, and I'm like, Man, I've never I've never heard that, except for when we've talked about the centerline of km h and I always thought the centerline of km h in the desert was 100 either way, but in the rocks, it's theirselves, it was 50, like down on the key ends. I thought it was 50.
Ryan Miller :But I don't think there was ever a number. I know, I know. This is like you say a hot topic right now. Seriously, it was down in San Felipe Bay last year, like you said, not naming names, but I had discussions with some people that asked me what I thought that rule was supposed to be after that race. As far as I knew, it's always 150 feet in the desert, but at Keio, ah, you know, JT or PR Dave, always say, you have to stay in the canyon on the rock trails. You have to stay in the canyon, you have to stay in the canyon, which this year they they said, Alright, if you want to take all the bypasses along the side, on lap two, you can. But on lap three, you have to stay in the bottom of the canyon. No, you know, taking any little side hills up and around anything like that, which, you know, like you say it's hard to adapt one single rule to all the races or every little segment of the race. Yeah. But like in Moab there is there's times you're you're in the same Canyon going up and down. Right. So you know, how does that work? You know?
Wyatt Pemberton :So you're, you're off course going up? And on course coming back? I don't know.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, I don't know. But, you know, it's it's the same thing. Like if you trap a corner, obviously, the apex of the corner is the furthest point of the course. So you'd have to stay within 150 feet of that, I guess, I don't know.
Wyatt Pemberton :I know, I look to the rule book. And I gotta say, you know, it's, I can see why there's, well, let me back up. I don't believe in having a rule book that is 600 pages. I don't believe in that. I don't believe you should have to define every single thing about the race, the car, the safety, you shouldn't have to really put dot your i's and T's for everything. And the expected for four to do that, I think is a disservice to them and a disservice to anyone that wants to race their series. But that said, I think I'd like to see a rule and then it says race course is a maximum of 150 feet either side. If it's going to be smaller, it will be discussed in the drivers meeting. Yeah, and each reach race gets a different drivers meeting. So at a minimum, everyone knows you can 150 feet is the maximum is will ever be on any race course at any given time on any segment. But on specific race courses, you have this different rules like, yeah, it's still going to be the maximum 150. But it may be less.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, that discussion always happens at care wage because people always ask, you know, can we take the side Hill through claw hammer or, you know, going up upper, you know, or lower big Johnson? Can you you know, take the sand hill on the side through half the trail or whatever, you know, and all that always gets discussed. The hot ones always the up and over bypass for aftershock,
Wyatt Pemberton :right, I have a feeling like I would be even running what I would feel like is the cleanest race, I still feel like I would have be having doubts about Did I just short course. I didn't intentionally do it. But did I just Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's not race that sucks. But like I said, I know there was a, there was a lot of contention, again, at this ratio. It seems like lately, we've all been only been talking about timing issues. But it seems like with you sec stepping in, at least, we believe the time this time, but you know, there's no real way to check it. Their work. So now, it used to be ultra for we could kind of check their work a little bit. Now. It's like, there's no ability to publicly audit it. But at least we're supposed to have more faith in usek. Right?
Ryan Miller :They still have the data. I mean, that doesn't lie. Yeah. And, you know, like, what came up in Tennessee, that was actually from me, because we knew that we had finished at least third in that race. And they had us down as fourth. And Penn Shannon is third and Shannon's like there's no way Bailey beat me like straight like, she started 12 places behind me and finished two minutes behind me that on 30 seconds started intervals. That doesn't make sense. And, you know, discussing with some ultra for people, they're like, Well, you know, all you guys in the top teams are usually keeping times as well, because you have an idea of who's behind you who's in front of you What place you're in on corrected time, because even Josh Wyler at that race who finished second, he even said after we finished man, it's going to be really close between you guys and us for second, and then ended up being like 20 or 25 seconds or something. So whenever they said that Josh beat us by nine minutes, we're like, oh, that's not right. So and it is true, like, like we do, obviously, Josh does, I'm sure Eric Miller, you know, almost same team. You know, the Gomez is Lauren time. They all keep time.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, they know exactly where they're at on time. So you have to you have to know where you can push it out push and and who's looking worse, even if you do the Intel know where the other team spotters are, and know where they have, you know, blind spots. Sometimes you can get around on the competition in front of you in the blind spot. You know, you can run hard in their blind spot between spotters and next thing you know, you've got to get run on them and they didn't realize it. Yeah, as we get into talking really deep strategy.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, I guess last year at Ridgecrest, when we ended up second, like 3030 seconds behind JP, he said that his brothers had binoculars, and they were at the pit and they were timing us from we're so far away, they couldn't see exactly where we were. But they had binoculars. And they were timing us and random splits where the racecourse paralleled the highway. And they were radioing to him saying you need to go faster, you need to go faster, still got you on time. And so we knew that we needed to chase him down to so we were both running crazy to the finish line, you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :just pushing, pushing all limits. I mean, that's what you have to do. And that's just I can say that just smart race intelligence. And there is some teams out there that definitely have the race intelligence on lockdown. I mean, they're pretty hardcore about that. So it's when there's a discrepancy in timing or whatever, it falls out pretty quick. So to my next question, though, which is along that why do you think that there is a reluctance in ultra for to throw a red card?
Ryan Miller :I don't know, it's probably more of a respect thing. Unless you have the hard evidence, you know, that, like, Are you really going to just speculate and say, I think someone did this or, or anything like that, you know, because a lot of these guys, they all help each other out off off the course right on the course I mean, you know, the helmets on and as JT says, everyone gets stupid, but I think back to racing, dirt riot, big rich made a thing where he said, if you want to throw a red card, you got to put 100 bucks down. And if you're wrong, the hundred bucks goes to the guy you threw the red card against. He didn't want people just throwing red cards, you know, out of the blue and anything and everything because they were crying about this or that whatever. And so I think it's kind of a probably a respect thing. I guess you know, Unless Unless you know Someone for sure did something. You know, are you really gonna? gonna say something?
Wyatt Pemberton :Unless you have the hard evidence? Yeah, I think that is absolutely part of it. We've just seen such a reluctance to see red cards thrown. No one likes calling another guy a cheater or calling them a liar or calling them whatever. And no one wants to be called a liar or a cheater, or I can't believe you would accuse me of that. Like, I didn't do that. And, and this kind of goes back to my my point about the I would probably get d queued for for short courses for something I didn't realize I was short course and and. And that's what would happen. It would be like, Hey, you know, you throw in a red car like, well, you want four and they're like, well, you took that bypass. Wait. Why did I wasn't mean the furious about it. Like I didn't it wasn't intentional, but damn it. Yeah, I absolutely took that line. I remember. I want to say like, ah, 10 or 11. Were slawson, I thought I think I'm gonna say is 10 slawson one. And then they went and look, they looked at it. And he taken a bypasser shortcut at the top of like some monitor, highway 2021 or something somewhere in there in that part of the course. And I remember hearing, you know that Dave and Jeff or wherever they went and talk to him. And they said, at the top of that, Which way did you go? And he goes, I went right. Was I supposed to go left? And they're like, Yeah, he's like, there it was. And he gave up, you know, he didn't actually know when or where? Or maybe it was third. I feel like the I feel like it was for the win, though. But man, yeah, that's hard. And so I think there is that I think I'm with you there on the reluctance to throw the red card. But that said, we continue to end up in these kind of situations where it's a afterwards, there's a lot of rumors and drama, and I have people that saw him and they videotaped him, you know, he was greater than 150 feet out of the course. And oh, yeah. Well, if you have the evidence in and it made a material difference, or even if it didn't make a material difference, I think, you know, there should be some level of obligation of, you know, throwing it out there. At least, no one wants to. Yeah, in the guise that it's happened to, they don't want to win because they cheated or they don't want that they're all I just don't think there's anyone out there racing today. That is like, you know what, I'm going out on pre running to find places to cheat.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, I mean, there's, there's competitive advantage, you know, of, if I chop this corner, I'm faster here instead of going here to there. And it's within 150 feet. Okay, that's legal. We're out in the desert, whatever. The rocks, I think is where it's, it's a big, big, big gray area, because 150 feet and rocks is huge. You know, well, yeah. feet out in the desert. Isn't that huge? Yeah. And the other thing you go back to is is like, there's trackers on the cars, so you can see exactly where the cars went, you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :within inches. Yeah. Loose satellites, linking up in space telling you where that race car went. Right. Yeah, let's talk about you, man. Let's let's get off of the drama and the hoopla of last weekend in Moab. Let's talk about Ryan Miller. Ryan Ryan's a he's a phoenix guy. But you live in Tulsa in Tucson now.
Ryan Miller :Yep. Yep. Grew up in Phoenix, all the way up through high school. moved down to Tucson to go to UVA. And here I am.
Wyatt Pemberton :Growing up though. Mom, Dad, siblings. Do you have any siblings?
Ryan Miller :You know, yeah, I have a younger sister.
Wyatt Pemberton :You'll be interested. She lives in Phoenix.
Ryan Miller :She lives in Phoenix still. Yeah, that's what made you move to Tucson. You have a Okay, I got a scholarship to go to U of A. So that's what I did. So
Wyatt Pemberton :you're jumping ahead of my story, but I'm okay with that. So you're a Wildcat. You have a degree in engineering. I do know that. I wasn't shocked at the engineering degree actually hang out with you a little bit. Yeah, like you can tell it. But uh, the Wildcats my alma mater is also the Wildcat. So I saw it. I was like, Alright, yeah, I like that. I like that. I like that.
Ryan Miller :There's a lot of Wildcat schools there. It
Wyatt Pemberton :turns out there are the turns out there. There really are. And then your dad got you into a got you into wheeling really early young age, right.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, I'd say. I mean, he would set me on on his lap when I was 567. And he would put push the gas and let me steer his truck around. So that's how I that's how I started driving. What kind of truck was it? It was a 72 Chevy four wheel drive on nice
Wyatt Pemberton :long bed short bed. It was
Ryan Miller :a short bed Cheyenne. Super it was the the one that everyone wants nowadays, and that was supposed to be my truck when I turned 16 but he ended up hitting some black ice on a hunting trip and totaled it.
Wyatt Pemberton :Wow. Yeah, that's that's so awful. What color was it?
Unknown Speaker :was the blue and white?
Wyatt Pemberton :Oh yeah, of course right you know, it's either that or the black. Those are the two sawn off. Yeah, right. Those your Chevy's, the 72, is the only model I can tell like I look at until that it's a 72 because it has the little, the little two reflectors on the fender on the front of the fender between the front wheel and the grille on each side and know the years have those so and then some something about when you look in the doors
Ryan Miller :right next to the wing. I can nerd out for you here for a minute because I want to build 67 to 72 Chevy's for about 10 years a 72 has the the rearview mirror mounted to the windshield and it also has a an exposed Phillips screw underneath where the wing window goes comes down into the door
Wyatt Pemberton :on the inside on the interior.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, and the door panels are different. The doorframe
Wyatt Pemberton :is different I didn't know the doorbell is different but yeah, it's that expose screw so if you but you got to look in it. But from the outside. The only other place I don't know tell tale I knew was just that reflector. It is a reflector. Right.
Ryan Miller :Right. It's a side marker and a reflector. Yeah. But they had them from 68 to 72. But they changed them slightly.
Wyatt Pemberton :So 72 was just a little different. Yeah, yeah. And that was he was all he was 72. And I kind of you know, you hang around with the same guy long enough. You kind of start understanding what he what he's talking about. Right? Yeah, man. So growing up. What else were you into?
Ryan Miller :You play sports? I played basketball a lot baseball.
Wyatt Pemberton :Because you're a boy. You're a big guy. What are you like? 616261?
Ryan Miller :Yeah. So I grew up playing basketball, mostly, and baseball, and all the way up till into high school. And then my high school counselors. I didn't play basketball or baseball at the school. I just played leagues with some buddies. I ended up he said, You need to do something extracurricular. And I was like, okay, and he's like, I'm the tennis coach. come out and play tennis. Okay. Turns out I'm really good at tennis.
Wyatt Pemberton :No kidding.
Ryan Miller :In two weeks before the season started, I never picked up a tennis racket in my life, made the varsity team for as a freshman killer and was on varsity for four years. And I think I had the most wins in total for varsity ever in school history.
Wyatt Pemberton :Never played for all these people that have been struggling and lessons. You just show up and you're like, what?
Ryan Miller :Yeah, sure, but I actually liked playing doubles better than singles. I don't know. But uh, I just did that. So I did that every year. And it was it was just kind of it was fun. I still, I still play a little bit here and there, or racquetball or pickleball my father in law and mother in law play pickleball all the time up at their cabin. And so every time we go up there, they asked me if I want to go play and I'm like, sure and I'll go play for three or four hours. It's just I like ping pong anything with a paddle?
Wyatt Pemberton :I'm learning so much about see this is the why we do the talent tanking we get these inside on these guys. So how long have I known you How long have we known each other?
Ryan Miller :probably close to 10 years probably something like eight or nine
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah. And then just hanging out you know me hanging out with it. The Campbells like in person with you. Like your numbers in my phone. probably five or six. Maybe seven somewhere in there. But yeah, exactly. I never tennis player. I love it.
Ryan Miller :I'd say my favorite is ping pong though. I love ping pong.
Wyatt Pemberton :There's something to say about that. I I fully. I play beer pong.
Ryan Miller :I play that too. Yeah,
Wyatt Pemberton :I'm okay. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty good at that one to add some time around it right. Oh, man. Your dad though. He was in the flat fender jeeps and I know you are still to today. How did that kind of materialize
Ryan Miller :going back to my dad put me on his lap and driving his truck around when I was five I'd say I'm pretty sure I was five My sister was three. I remember that. My parents were like we want to buy property up in the mountains. We want to get away out of Phoenix on the weekends and you know in the summer and Okay, so they bought What started out as an acre up in northern Arizona in the White Mountains there which is for people that don't know it's like six 7000 feet on average up there at least above the rim so it's all pine trees and cool weather. So they bought that they just parked a large travel trailer there like go up there stay for the weekend. Okay, whatever. That Christmas my dad bought my sister and I quad to drive around up there. So I started riding a quad when I was five and she started when she was three and he you know that happened for that lasted about a year and he's like I need to get something to drive around up here. So searching the old classified ads, you know old school style and the paper every every morning. He found a an flat fender Jeep for 600 bucks, and when bought it, and he worked on it and worked on and worked on it for like a year, and he was getting ready to take up there. And he's like, this thing's a pile. So he's like, I don't want to I don't want to fix this thing. The because it was an actual it was an MB It was a World War Two, one. So it had the weaker transmission and stuff. And he's like, you know what, someone will want to restore this thing. I'm going to sell it. So he sold it and bought another one, a civilian model, and didn't do anything to it. towed it up there. And that's what I learned to drive on. It had no brakes. Those old jeeps have non synchro transmissions
Wyatt Pemberton :grinder grinder.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. So I think I was eight when I drove that thing the first time. You know, they have a max speed of almost nothing if they're in low range, which that's all he would let me drive around in. So he had that one for, I don't know, close to 20 years, and he's like, I want to get a nicer Jeep. And so he ended up finding one he searched and searched, found one. So then he sold our old Jeep to our neighbor, and it started like our own little flat fender club up there. And certainly soon there was like four or five neighbors that all had them. So we go on little flat fender cruises out through the forest. And then he got another better Jeep. And then there was a big fire in Arizona and it actually burned down our our barn barn yard lien to basically burned everything but the cabin, we ended up building up there. And you know, we lost quads, motorcycles, that Jeep is old Chevy was up there, because he was going to fix it. And so all that was junk. And he, he was pretty sad about that, because the GP had had like 60,000 original miles it was cherry garage kept its entire life. So he's like, I'm never gonna find one like that. I'm never gonna find one. Well, back in Phoenix, a guy around the neck street ended up having one for sale. And he's like, I ain't gonna go buy it. My mom's like, just go buy another Jeep stop your crime. And so he ended up buying it. And he took it up there drove it around for a couple years, but it was one that you know, had sat for, like 20 or 30 years. So every single thing on it that held or passed a fluid leaked, so I ended up stealing it from them. And I said, when I bring this thing back, it's not going to leak. Then I ended up tearing it down to the to the frame and doing a complete frame up. It wasn't like a restoration. I just basically rebuilt everything mechanically made it look nice, put fresh paint on it. I mean, I didn't fix that. I just fixed any rust in the body. Didn't smooth it out. Nothing. Just make it look nice from 50 feet. And in here you go. And that was a couple, four or five years ago, took it back up to him.
Wyatt Pemberton :If you made it too nice. He never dried it.
Ryan Miller :No, he's not afraid to scratch it. Because that's what up there. It's all pine trees and stuff. And he finds these old logging roads that have been abandoned for 4050 years. And the only thing that you can fit down him is a Willys Jeep, because they're all overgrown. We actually Brian and Bailey came up there one weekend in their Jeep jL which he's got, you know, 40s and curry 70s. And it's super wide. And my dad starts turning down some of these trails. And I'm like, Hey, he's not gonna fit. And he's like, Oh, yeah, you know, he like forgets because every time I go up there, I I try to take mine. And because I have one and go cruise around with him.
Wyatt Pemberton :You mentioned earlier, you know, the neighbors saw started getting him he had a little flat finger club. But now you've kind of resurrected you kind of have a flat finger club going now because you've convinced a handful of people to to also get in and go out with you guys.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. Like I was mentioning on that, that weekend that Bailey and Brian came up and they're in their new Jeep. I was trying to tell Brian, Hey, you got to get one of these. There's so much fun. And he's like no way that those things are piles. I would never want one, you know, and I was like, riding it riding it. And he wrote in it. And I was like you want to drive it? And he's like, all right. And then the very, I don't even think he made it home and he was already searching for one that's hilarious. Like, he's like, these things are so much fun. I can't because I'm actually shocked at how well they ride. Just because they're so small. They have no wheelbase. They're not wide at all. And you just kind of Bebop along through the forest trails. And just have a good time, you know, and Brian's dad art ended up wanting one too, after seeing the fun and there's all bunch of their neighbors up there. And in the southeast Valley. They've got no 30 or 40 of them buy them up there now.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's hilarious. I've seen you guys doing a flat fender rallies. And you guys are cruising around. No, rollcage No. And like I said, You're six foot one. You're a big dude. Brian is also a very big dude. So both of you to kind of like big dudes and a little car.
Ryan Miller :They're very small. I wouldn't want to be any taller and drive when I can tell you that I already cheated and I put a a military column in mind to make the steering wheel further away, because your arms are up in your chest. Otherwise eyes just doing a little work to them here and there. And there's little differences between them. They get you more leg room or not. And,
Wyatt Pemberton :and they're cheaper than a razor, right? Yeah. Well, they can be they can. I mean, you can.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, you're supposed to. This is where I say I hope my wife doesn't listen to this, right. I mean, Brian's got a really nice one
Wyatt Pemberton :we're talking about and I might not drop Nate last time for Brian Crofts. Brian is an ultra for racer as well. He's currently engaged to Bailey Campbell. And like I said, we're talking to Ryan Miller, who's now driving your Bailey's carpet. So you can see how the family is always all pretty tight and hanging out in the team's free time hanging out.
Ryan Miller :Yep, yep. Yeah, he wanted one that was very clean low miles. So he searched for one and found it. And I ended up helping him build axles transmission transfer case. And when I say build, I mean, we rebuilt the stock ones. And I showed him all the little tricks that I do do them. Of course, we put some cheater stuff in our axles like lockers, you know, just uh, they're a little bit better. They're very light, surprising when they weigh nothing, like 20 to 2300 pounds when they're stock. And that's pretty much what we're keeping them in stock. So
Wyatt Pemberton :Well, I've seen those videos. You know, it's a video, it's a parade video of like the MB Jeep rolling down the parade. And, like the guys jump off and like they take it apart, carry like, axles out, wheels out, engine out, and then they carry it 50 feet and put it right back together. And then they'll jump back in it and they roll another block taken apart again. And it's all set up with like quick disconnect stuff. It's Yeah, obviously set up for the parade. But
Ryan Miller :they're very easy to work on. Like, there's nothing to them. They're super simple. You know, old school carburetor, gravity feed fuel line to a mechanical fuel pump. I mean, dude, it doesn't get any simpler.
Wyatt Pemberton :So as we move away from talking about flat fares, I'm kind of gonna blur some lines here between talking about your wife, Kaylee, and some of the stuff you guys like to do together, and flat fenders. But one of the things you like to do when you're not racing, and flat for noon is, uh, I got this right. You guys, I know you love exploring. But you have a penchant for finding out hunting, hunting, old ghost towns, old mining towns.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. So we like anything we like going out and exploring all the time. And there's a bunch of places around Tucson here. I mean, there's southern Arizona has like, big, big, big turn of the century mining, you know, 1900. So there's a lot of stuff. But this year, the beginning of this year, when all the COVID stuff went down, and all the businesses shut and you can go out to you know, eat and, you know, this little small town, that place is closed, okay. And so that's the stuff we used to go do of all those. Well, I like reading old Arizona highways, magazines and stuff, you know, just the history of Arizona and all the random places you can go see if you're lost. And one of their specials that I bought the book was old mining towns and go, you know, most ghost towns, and there's hundreds. And so what we did is we pick some in an area and we take off Saturday like five in the morning and drive her car. But your car's a an Audi Q seven, all wheel drive. So it's, it's nice to drive down the road, but it's also all wheel drive. And we just drive out down these dirt roads and ended up somewhere that you know, that car probably shouldn't be. And we we just go fine, you know, 1015 ghost towns in a day. And we come back home. And the next weekend we do it again. And so we her car got you know, a couple hundred miles each weekend of just dirt road driving, just going out and exploring and seeing what's out in the middle of nowhere where you got to be last to find it.
Wyatt Pemberton :I love that about you guys, as we start talking to Kaylee here in a second is you guys, every time I talk to you, it's like, bam. I can't do something this weekend. I'm wearing glamorous. Hey, I can't do something. Next weekend. We're gonna be in Johnson Valley. Pre running and testing and getting ready for rebel. And oh, we can't go that we can because we're gonna be doing this. Yeah. And it's you guys are Go go go every weekend. And it's outdoors. offroad related. And y'all are just living it breathing it on a regular basis.
Ryan Miller :Yep. Yep. That's that's been the even though you know, a lot of stuff hasn't been going on. That's what we've been doing just constantly.
Wyatt Pemberton :So I've mentioned her name. You are married to this wonderful woman. Kaylee. How did you meet?
Ryan Miller :Well, it's interesting. We actually met probably 16 or 17 years ago, I'd say. I was with a bunch of guys that we started an off road club at UVA. And they said We need to start a club so that way we have buddies to come get us unstuck from somewhere or come help us get our broken rig out of somewhere. Right. And so we started an off road club.
Wyatt Pemberton :Is this pre Undertaker's?
Ryan Miller :Yeah, yeah. You know, we started that off for a club and then for homecoming at the school, they always team, you know, a fraternity with a sorority for homecoming float, whatever. Well, they try to Team clubs with other clubs. Well, we're an off road club. So naturally, there's a lot of guys. Well, they teamed us with the nursing club, obviously, mostly girls,
Wyatt Pemberton :and sounds like a win.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, her sister was in the nursing club, because she's got actually two sisters that are nurses. And so she would always come hang out with her sisters with the off road club because she liked off roading. But then she would just hang out whatever. We just knew each other. She ended up going to grad school in Austin. And then she moved back. And she lived here for a while. And then we just randomly met and one day in downtown Tucson, getting lunch, just SAR and started talking whatever. And she's like, Hey, you know, I really want to, you know, I've been working a lot. I've got a bunch of money because I've worked a bunch of overtime and I want to buy a jeep and go off roading again, because that was a lot of fun. She's like, will you go look at one with me because I found one. Like, okay, so I went to with her to go look at it. And then she's like, Well, do you think I should get it? And I'm like, yeah, it's it's a good deal. Yeah. She's like, okay, so she ended up buying it. And then we ended up hanging out more and then we ended up dating and now we're married. That's the short story.
Wyatt Pemberton :Well, so yeah, you already kind of answered some of my questions about that. Because my questions were, was she already into off roading somehow some way or had you converted her? Yeah. And as we start, because I do want to talk about her. What she does is absolutely amazing. She, she likes to do offered rallies, especially the rebel, which is Emily Miller's baby. And at this point I've got I'm gonna just throw the ball into your court to describe what rebel is because I'm totally enamored with what Emily Miller has going. And we Miller, another Miller that you're not really to talk about. Yeah. So, so there you and I are in looking back this up. So Kaylee's won this rally twice. She's wanted.
Ryan Miller :One twice is finished third, another time.
Wyatt Pemberton :And as you're gonna describe it here in depth because you explained it to me at Keio Ah, this past year. We're standing at a smudge pot late. I don't know. I don't think it was midnight but it was definitely late. We were drinking beers. I was with Myles hassel kiss we came over to see you Shannon Bay you just everybody in yells crew I mean, and you and I stood outside by the smoke pot talking to somehow we start talking about rebel and that led me to I'd met Emily Miller that day or maybe the day before somewhere over in the media tent. And then your you start telling me about what she does outside of doing what she was overthinking hammers. And I went right back the next day, I found her and was like Emily I host a podcast called the talent tank we cover ultra for stuff I know you're working for ultra for but I want to talk to you about rebel because what you guys do is just floored me it floored me what so it's a women's offroad rally. And now just walk us through some of the crazy stuff you're telling me like the wheels like, like how many feet in you know the rotation and, and navigating and encompasses and, and substance and you know, GPS and one spare tire and ladies slash tire. And they don't have a pit crew to change it. And not only that they use their spare. They're like stitching up tires. On the side of the road. Yeah, come on, give me give me your elevator pitch on this.
Ryan Miller :They're definitely not your average women. They are they're like we were talking about before they are badass as they start this rally. And there's not many vehicle requirements. You can't have like a race car or anything. It has to be a production vehicle available to the public. You can have like, four link coilover suspension on it and, you know, whatever else has to be like some sort of bolt on suspension. If you lift it, you can't have bigger than 35 inch tires. So you can you know, put 37 or 40 or anything like that on it. And they start usually up by taho and they usually end in Glamis. So that's quite that's pretty much the entire state line of California down through Nevada, and then even South further all the way to the border of Mexico, except for they do it on dirt. And they do it for eight days and they camp in a tent and what You bring with you is what you have. If you need tools, or you know your car needs this spare, you have to bring it changing a tire. That's you. If you want to bring two spares, you can bring two spares. But you also have no GPS, no electronic navigation, anything, anything that has GPS on it, you can't have with you. You can't have your phone, your laptop, nothing. They're using a map and a compass and going approximately, I have to say this in kilometers, because that's the other thing is Emily sets it up in kilometers. To make it more difficult, I think,
Wyatt Pemberton :yeah, she was described around like this woman is evil. And also,
Ryan Miller :they go like 2000 kilometers on dirt with a map and compass and find like 200 or 250 checkpoints along the way, in eight days.
Wyatt Pemberton :And as you describe the checkpoints, some of them are obvious, they're 15 feet tall, you can see them from a mile away. And some of them are,
Ryan Miller :it's like a ski like ski slopes. So you have green, blue, and black, green are the easy ones. There's course workers and big green flags. And you know, you're there, okay, the blue checkpoints are, they usually just put a flag there, there's no coursework or anything. But she also puts out trick blues to make sure that you know where you are. So if you didn't go point two kilometers far enough, then you didn't get the right blue, because there could be a blue there and another one around the corner. And then the blacks are there nothing, there's nothing that marks them. It is a just point in, in space, somewhere out on out on earth. And she scores the blacks in range rings, like a target. So the closer you are to the bullseye, the more points you get. So
Wyatt Pemberton :how do you verify those,
Ryan Miller :so what they have is they have a tracker on the vehicle that people at home can follow where they're going. And you can see the checkpoints on the map. So you can see if they're going to it or not, or if they're close or not. And you can zoom way in or zoom way out. And you can follow your favorite team, whatever. And you also have a second tracker that they use that they push a button on to score each checkpoint. So every time they push the button, it scores that checkpoint. Now if they skip a checkpoint and go to another one, and they push the button, you can't go back and get a previous one. But they know where you're at, you know which one you're trying to score, or if you scored it or not. But that's how so when you push the button, it logs that position in the tracker and then sends it you know, via the satellite back to their scoring. And then they instantly within 510 minutes they have the score posted.
Wyatt Pemberton :So you would describe to me something like knowing like, what the diameter of your rolling attire. Yeah.
Ryan Miller :So the accuracy that they're talking about is very exact. Whenever you're plotting your directions, whether it's to a green, a blue or black, so a lot of newer vehicles have, you know, ABS sensor, so they have tone rings, so it can count that older vehicles, we had originally built her a TJ, which was the Jeep that she had bought when we first met again. So that's an older vehicle, we actually put a magnetic sensor on the wheel, or on the backing plate of the axle in the rear, so it would actually count each Lumsden as it went by so it count five pulses for one rotation of the tire. So the only electronic device I guess you could say that is allowed is you're allowed to terror trip type device, like rally computers, they make some with GPS, but those aren't allowed, but it calculates distance in hundredths of a mile or kilometer not tense, like your odometer. So these girls will plot a point. And then they'll plot the next point, they'll get to the first one. And then they'll say, okay, we need to drive 4.39 kilometers to the next checkpoint 4.39 Okay, and they'll drive and that thing will say 4.39, boom, we're here, you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :based off a tone ring or something like that,
Ryan Miller :they get that exact. So when you when you're talking hundreds of a kilometer, you're talking 10 meters, which is 33.3 feet. your odometer is in, let's say you can't push a button and change it to kilometers, like most of these newer vehicles, a 10th of a mile is 528 feet. Your accuracy is almost 20 times you know, so that's Yeah, they're they're very precise. And you have to make sure you get the right checkpoint. So the same checkpoint isn't for everybody. There's three different groups. So some days they could all have the same checkpoints and other days they have three different checkpoints for the three different groups and some days they have two groups. Get the same check point and wonder gets a different set. Because she doesn't want people following. You know,
Wyatt Pemberton :she's like I said, ruthless. ruthless just diabolique, Emily Miller. I hope you hear this be
Ryan Miller :good navigators.
Wyatt Pemberton :Oh, absolutely. And like I said, all these women, so there's two of them in a car. They're attached to the hip for eight days. They are Yep,
Ryan Miller :tight. Yep. before they leave Basecamp. They have to, you know, if it's a day that they're not staying at base camp, again, if it is they leave all their camping gear, but they have to pack up their camping gear, they have to plot all their points, eat breakfast, load everything in the car, take off from the start line. And then from there, from that point, once they're done with all that, which is a couple hours, they have 10 to 12 hours to collect all these checkpoints for the day. And then they get back to another base camp or the same one. eat dinner. Set up there, Ted, go to bed. do it all over again for eight days straight.
Wyatt Pemberton :so impressive. so impressive. I yeah. As you're telling me this, I mean, I'm I think my job was just fully on the ground. There means dry, like going no way. And then I'm also visualizing my wife doing this. And I'm like, no way. She'd be absolutely never know on any god's green earth but your wife Kaylee does. And she's one of the eyes. That's a noun. So you guys were just out in Johnson Valley a few weeks ago, or week before my lab, doing some testing. And getting ready, ready for rebel because rebel is coming up here pretty quickly. Right?
Ryan Miller :Yeah, we're leaving next weekend. There. So when this airs, it'll be this the end of this week. So
Wyatt Pemberton :now you have developed a pretty good relationship with Emily Miller with rebel over rules and regulations and logistics, and she dread when she sees your number pop up on her phone? No,
Ryan Miller :no, she actually, she probably calls me more than I call her. I've actually taken a lot of the me and another guy here. I should say, he's in Phoenix. His wife does the rebel too. And there's probably a group of, I don't know, six to eight of them, you know, around around the area. And we'll go set up practice courses for him. And we'll do the same stuff she does. We'll give them trick checkpoints, fake ones, you know, make them really think about what they're doing. And take them out. And that's, you know, that group, there's a couple of them from Southern California that actually drive out just just for that just for the day to hang out with them and go practice. But yeah, we were in Johnson Valley couple It was a couple weeks ago, two, three weeks ago, it I don't know if it was actually that long, but it feels that long ago. And we actually went to Glamis. To It was very, very hot. I've been to Johnson Valley, not during kale, ah, you know, not this time of year, but it was a was two days in a row of 117. And we were like, yep, not We're leaving.
Wyatt Pemberton :miserable.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, we're just happy. We actually just got a new rally g for this year. We're making sure that it doesn't heat when you leave the AC blasting. And 120 degree weather in the sand. So
Wyatt Pemberton :that's something good to know. Right?
Ryan Miller :Yeah. Yeah, you got to make sure because, uh, I mean, the the 99 Tj we had built her it was built specifically for that rally, and it killed it. And, you know, because I built, I built something that's comfortable to drive, bulletproof. And that had a spare for literally everything. So that way, they were 100% self sufficient. And it did its job they won. But it just, you know, as things progress and change. Last year, I guess she didn't do it. Because she just got a new career going. So she took a year off. And they had a really long first day, I guess it was like eight or nine hours on the highway. But she's like, my TJ is not built to drive eight or nine hours on the highway. It's built to drive in dirt all day long. And so you know, cruising it. 50 in dirt is a whole nother thing than cruising at down a highway, right. And that thing was built like with a top speed of like 65 in mind. So it's like way over geared, you know, so that way it doesn't struggle at anything ever. And it just it wasn't right anymore. You know,
Wyatt Pemberton :the rally had moved around. Yeah, it's been changed up. Hey, that's just evolution.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. So we got a new Jeep and we've been working on it and there's still a few things to do. And we got about 10 days before we leave. So
Wyatt Pemberton :you ready? She's ready. And now who's her co driver to
Ryan Miller :her teammates terilyn petard? That's right. I probably said it wrong. I can't ever pronounce it. Right. But everybody knows terilyn Yeah. Carolyn's out of Well, she lives in St. George, I think right now, but she used to live in Moab. She's just just like my wife, she's wants to go out and play outdoors all the time. She has her own little Toyota buggy that she drives around. And she fixes it modifies it herself built it herself. So that's something else.
Wyatt Pemberton :As I'm looking forward to putting together this episode, I have to do one thing, right one of the checkboxes on my list is a headshot. So usually you know I go stock through your Facebook and your Instagram and I find a good a good picture of you. And if I don't then I call my good buddy Alan Johnson adult for for Mr. dusty gnome over there. And he usually has a good one for me and but I didn't find one for you. But what I did find was, you and your wife have a penchant. I don't know if this is just because it only shows up on Facebook. But you guys have a lot of ugly sweaters.
Ryan Miller :She has an ugly sweater. We actually have an entire closet in our house dedicated to ugly sweaters.
Unknown Speaker :batter
Ryan Miller :she she likes throwing an ugly sweater party every every Christmas for all of our friends and stuff. But yeah, one bedroom that we don't use has a has the closet is full of ugly sweaters.
Wyatt Pemberton :No, it was truly ridiculous. And anyone that you know, they'll see the links to right to Robert Miller's Facebook page here with the episode but I give you examples of his his photos. And it's like, way too many ugly sweaters. So I was like, Oh, yeah, oh, well, that was Christmas. And then you keep scrolling. Right? Well, that's a different ugly sweater. And then you scroll up for like, more ugly sweaters. And then more sweaters. I was like, okay, I've seen enough. I've got to write this down. I got to ask you about it. That's good. That's good. It's like, yeah, the tribe guys. Like Adam sharing company. They have boxes of wigs, wigs. Yeah. And they and they throw a wig out parties. They wig out. You know, just bring out the box of wigs. I don't know how that works with COVID, though. I mean, you still wear your mask. But then here's it just swapping wigs.
Ryan Miller :I don't I don't think that applies.
Wyatt Pemberton :fireball kills it.
Ryan Miller :Those guys in fireball.
Wyatt Pemberton :So there you are you graduate from university of Arizona, you're a Wildcat, you have your degree in engineering today. You work for a company doing like HVDC systems, but you do all like the computer and automation stuff. What we do that Who do you work for now,
Ryan Miller :it's company called Advanced controls, I do a lot of troubleshooting stuff. But I do a lot of from from scratch programming of large, large, large commercial AC units. These aren't like your house, you know, these are water cooled, big. So you have giant central plants with chillers. I program those from from scratch, all automated, you know, alarming, you know, redundancy, switching, lots of relays, lots of sensors. And so I mess with those all day long.
Wyatt Pemberton :And we're talking buildings like large office building schools, government buildings, the air works everywhere. And with that, I mean, you handle everything, it's just not what's on the wall, when somebody walks to the thermostat that's like the front end interface. It's everything that front end interface, then runs.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, yeah, the background behind them is, is huge. And you know, a whole lot of a lot of stuff nowadays is all, you know, trying to be energy savings. So I actually do a lot of programming of systems that are either stuff that has been done recently or a long time ago, and reprogram them to still do what they do now but make them more energy efficient.
Wyatt Pemberton :So is that shutting them off at nighttime on certain stuff or starting on put up at different times, like what are coming kind of some of the nuances,
Ryan Miller :you can set back temperatures, you know, whenever the buildings less occupied buildings have load from, you know, outside air temperature, computers, people lighting, like that's the big ones. If you can, you know, minimize some of that stuff at certain hours, you can change the way that all the equipment in the background runs and make it run, you know, not as hard and therefore it uses less. You know, overall it uses less electricity is what it comes down to. But you know, if you don't need, you know, 100 gallons of 44 degree water flowing through a unit to cool it and you only need 90 over the course of hours and hours and hours that 10 gallons adds up and then you go well maybe we don't need 40 degree water. Maybe we need 50 degree water. And you know, and I've actually I've done I've done a lot of that then it's surprising people would be shocked. A lot of times the bill to reprogram it has already paid for itself before I'm done. Oh wow. In energy savings.
Wyatt Pemberton :I'll take her off for a large building. The guy that program the one for my office, that guy sucks. It's got to wear a sweater in the summertime. And then one of us sit there and like tank top and Speedo in a winter. It may be 30 degrees. efficient. Yeah. complete disaster. Yeah, exactly. Terrible, terrible, terrible. How long have you done that
Ryan Miller :full time for about 14 years.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's pretty cool. I always always get a kick out of what people do for a living and how they end up into it and, and then what they're good at and how their mind works. And so when I start talking to you about a rebel, and even even free to that, and prior to that, you know, talking about various things with the Campbell cars and the engineering side of it and you working with like Matt Taylor and, and Matt has done all the design work, the CAD work, but he's also just a really handy wrench in the Campbell stable and as a you, you realize really quick, you're not a mechanic like you're way more than that, like your your your mind is going a million miles a minute over all the nuances, not just where the 10 millimeter might be.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. Yeah, we, I mean, just with what I do at work, it's very technical. And some of that applies, you know, to racing. Some of it doesn't but you know, just figuring out why why something did this. Why did that? I no one knew that when they had that race in Texas. Couple years ago, the desert race, wastelands car, I had a cooling fan that wouldn't work on it. And I ended up rewiring it and Shannon's like, are you sure that's gonna work? And I'm like, it'll be fine. But when we get home, we need to make a permanent fix here.
Wyatt Pemberton :Was that Sierra Blanca?
Ryan Miller :Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. That's I mean, all day I deal with relays. That's, I mean, that's the basic thing. It's, and just this last weekend in Moab, the the guys in the nitto trailer, were like, We can't lower our rear deck off the trailer. So we can't unload anything and Shannon's like, come on Miller, we can go figure this out. And we went over there and, and we started looking, and we're like, this doesn't make sense. This isn't where the controls are for this. And I ended up cutting open a tab that was dated like 2010. So no one had been in there and forever. And inside of it was a VFD, which is a variable frequency drive for electric motors. And I deal with those all day long, too. So I'm like, No, okay, this is right up my alley. And but it wasn't a product I was familiar with. So I busted out the book. And I'm looking at it. And I'm like, this doesn't make sense, because they say it goes up and down. So there has to be something that reverse this motor, and there was one relay in there. And I'm like, Huh, I wonder if that relays it ended up being that they drove down that route, that bumpy road in area bfhi. And the relay actually stuck, where it would only go down it wouldn't go up. Okay. It just needed to just toggled once, and they just needed a Miller. I didn't even really do anything. You know, it's just one of those, you know, little nuances.
Wyatt Pemberton :So, man, the early offerding years for you. I'm gonna back and back up a little bit. But you know, the Willis Jeeps, you and your sister, you know, quads and motorcycles. What was your first truck when you got your license?
Ryan Miller :Well, I had my first truck before I had a license
Wyatt Pemberton :as you should actually. Yeah.
Ryan Miller :My first vehicle my dad actually got it, but I was 13 and end up being mine. It was a 71 Chevy Suburban four wheel drive.
Wyatt Pemberton :big boat.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. So that's what I ended up driving. At first, when I turned 16. I was like, I want a truck on another truck. So I ended up buying a member I said I was into the 67 to 72 Chevy's I bought a 68 Chevy CST two wheel drive. And I built that thing as like a little street truck. And then I had the 71 suburban was like the off road vehicle. The suburban was ugly. And it was actually for one homecoming with off road club. It was a mash theme. And one of the guys had a Willys Jeep. So we put it on a trailer, and they're like, Hey, can we paint your truck olive drab? And I was like, sure, because it was my suburban I didn't care. So we painted the whole truck all of driving, it stayed all of drab forever. But that was my it was on 30 sevens and one tons and locked. And that was like my first my offer of vehicle, you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :is that what you had when you kind of start getting into pirate horror for
Ryan Miller :that? And I had, I probably had my what would end up being my buggy, which was my jeep y j, as well.
Wyatt Pemberton :And then so that's Yeah, that you know exactly where I'm going how I'm getting into it. So, yeah, unit, that thing, you carve it up this, this y j, it ends up being your buggy. And then that's kind of about where I remember kind of knowing who the Ryan Miller was somebody and that was around and that centered around a there's an Undertaker's club.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, yes. I when I got that g by belted into a buggy and I got an Arizona Undertaker's and.
Wyatt Pemberton :And y'all just hit amazing. I mean, I don't like cussing on here but you guys hit just amazing shit. I mean, you see videos of the vertical climbs that you guys are doing in the cracks and like, No way somebody took something up that Yep, Arizona Undertaker's all of them. Yeah. And they did it in reverse, you know,
Ryan Miller :some of the stuff these guys are doing now because I've haven't had a buggy for four years now. But I still go out and I, you know, go wheeling with them or helpscout some new trails, I've steered them to a couple that I've found and they've went and ran them and people are just like, what are these getting? They're all you know, rear steer 40 twos and 40 threes and you know, there's a couple guys with red cars and just making waterfalls there, bitch. Yeah, it's funny because going back to you know, co H and smack talking about pirate and stuff. The backdoor shootout when that first came out, I was like, Oh, this is our jam, you know, and I had my buggy and I've been to kayo H and that thing we would do laps every night on backdoor 510 times, because our trails here, you know, every part in the country is different. So you can't say you know, our trails are the hardest trails, it's all just different. We've had guys from sand hollow come down here and we'll and their wheel bases are like 10 inches shorter than ours. So they struggle on the stuff that we make it easily up and then you take our stuff to sand hollow and it doesn't work as good as theirs. You know, you build your stuff to
Wyatt Pemberton :your local you do.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, we have trails that have six or seven backdoors on one trail. So you know going up backdoors like, okay, we'll just go up backdoor. Well, you know, we got on pirate and we're talking smack and some of the guys were like new new guys, or they weren't a season that that stuff, or they've never been to coach before, so they weren't sure how you're supposed to hit back door. And a lot of them didn't even pre run it nothing. And I was the only one that made it up a little. And I was like you guys are fantastic. So then there was a bunch of guys from Oregon. And you know, I had seen him on the hill and we talked all week, every night when we go up there and just do laps. And you know, it was fun. You know, they deservingly talked a bunch of smack about us because none none of those guys could get up it. So
Wyatt Pemberton :I remember like this, harking way back to an old guy Nolan Grogan? Not that not that he's old. He's only couple years older than me. But uh, but he's an old school Wheeler. Nolan's thing was always like, if you can't get past the first rock, you know, it's really like, basically, if you can't get past the gatekeeper, you can't do the trail. So yeah, if you can't get it back door he don't deserve to do and there's nothing behind back behind backdoor, you know, once you get over it. Yeah. But but that's kind of his deal is
Ryan Miller :it? There's the whole pressure thing to you know, it's one thing to do it when your trail wailing and it's another one the spotlights on you, which there's there's a couple two of those guys. I had never seen them not make it on the first shot. And they did not make it. Ah, and I'm like, and then you know, the next night we'd go out there and they'd go right up again.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's how it works. Right?
Ryan Miller :Well, I mean, they had to put a helmet on, right. So as you know, big rich always says things change when you have to put a helmet on and you got to dodge cones.
Wyatt Pemberton :You said you see things differently? And yeah, and there's a little bit more pure peer pressure, or Yes, certainly self pressure.
Ryan Miller :And by that point, I'd already you know race. raced my buggy a few times. So driving with the helmet on that doesn't bother me any.
Wyatt Pemberton :So yeah. So you race that you in that race in that car and 4800? Right.
Ryan Miller :I actually didn't race in not that well. Not in 4800 for ultra for but
Wyatt Pemberton :you raise your
Ryan Miller :right. They would lump what they called unlimited trail class, which was it's basically 4800 Ultra for rules, but with no tire limit. So you could run 48 or 42 or 43, or whatever the hell you wanted. Were 4800 cars there only limit is single shock 30 sevens. Well, the unlimited trail class was single shock, whatever the hell else you want. And so you ran that for a while and they're right. And you did damn well. Like I remember seeing very well, when I first first race my first race and I didn't know what to expect. I was on leaf springs still. This was in the first year dirt riot. It was just my old clapped out leaf spring buggy. And I was like, well, we'll try it and see what happens. I didn't race the first race of the season because it was like a desert race, but they were racing in Moab. And I was like, well, I'll go race in Moab. I love trail wheeling in Moab. I love area bfhi that's where the races Okay, I ended up winning the race with a broken leaf spring by like 15 minutes and I was like, Hmm, okay, well, I guess I got to show up to the next race if I won that one, and I ended up winning 10 or 11 races in a row into the following season as well. And this was in the beginning, so there wasn't, you know, that many guys racing. And it was pretty much 40 100 cars weren't even a thing at the time. So it was just guys and trail rakes and then eventually got into the 4800 class evolved in ultra for and so those guys got lumped into racing with us in dirt riot, you know, similar rules. It's, you know, it is same car. So I ended up you know, racing against a lot of guys that raised 4800 and still raise 4800. But yeah, I want to come won a couple national championships, quite a few series championships. And like I was telling you about, you know, racing with Bailey, I think there was never a rate I think I entered like 35 or 40 races over the course of five seasons. And I never did not finish one. Insane.
Wyatt Pemberton :Good prep, right.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, I always made sure the car was was prepped. Very, very well, even though it was a pile as I called it. You know, it was a stock Jeep. 2.5 liter four cylinder that makes 120 horsepower. And you know, the car I just raced last week and almost makes that one cylinder.
Unknown Speaker :Yeah, right now
Ryan Miller :Seriously? Yeah. But perspective. Yeah. When I started racing that thing, you know, like I said, I was a broken on, you know, I broke a leaf spring, every race. I raced it the first season. And I ended up getting approached by Brian Turner, who at the time worked at ETS, and they were like, Hey, you know, we think we want to work with you on something, you know, cuz you have a buggy that works has no power. But, you know, we could showcase what good suspension does, you know. And so we ended up modifying it after the first season. And I came out the second season with an untested rig that I literally loaded on the trailer, it was quite quite the feat to get it done. Just gathering parts on time, you know, from everybody. And my buddies helped me get it done. It was like 10:30pm, Arizona time in Utah times an hour after us. It was 1130. And the race was the following morning at 8am in Moab, and I loaded it on the trailer, eight and a half hours before the race started and did well over the speed limit all the way there through the middle of the night after not sleeping for three days trying to finish this thing and unloaded it off the trailer and debuted it and smoked it. Nice. Just worked right out of the box. So
Wyatt Pemberton :what year was that? That was 20. Likes seven well, oh my call later? I was thinking yeah,
Ryan Miller :yeah, that's a thinker, right was 2011 when they started? So it was the second second season.
Wyatt Pemberton :We're in there. Did you start running around with the Campbell crew? I mean, how did that intro happen?
Ryan Miller :I went to college for the first time at two on 2009. And that was when Shannon first had his first ifms car and I Undertaker's buddies knew him. I didn't live in Phoenix, so I didn't, I knew who he was. And you know, we hung out around the pit and, and, you know, said hey, and whatever, but I wasn't part of the pit crew or anything. He's just hanging out. 2010 I actually helped him pit at the hammers a little bit, you know, just like an extra hand like, Hey, you know, you want to help us pit where we need some pit guys. Okay. And then after that shortly after kayo Ah, Shannon wanted to go out trail wheeling. Okay, we'll go to one of our spots. And so we took them out there in what was their old two seat car that Nick and Rob McKinney had actually raised at Keio Ah, that year was just a simple little two seat rock buggy from axles solid axle radiator behind the seats. Curry 60s 40s with bypass air shocks, I think on it, yep. So he brought Bailey and Wayland out and put them in that and Shannon rode with whoever had an open seat at the time. You know, he was just jumping in random buggies. And I was I kind of plan the trip. So I was leading that trip on all the trails, and I think I drove all the stuff. There's a couple of obstacles where we were that you know, it's hit or miss whether you have to winch him and I was helping spot you know, anyone that wanted to spot normally we just love each other flail and laugh at each other. We're sure we'll and but when the kids got up, you know, Shannon would say, Hey, you know, just listen to him. He'll tell you what to do. And I'd spot him up and he actually made Bailey drive and Weyland sit in the passenger seat. And that went for a whole day and three quarter I'd say. And Bailey had no problem driving everything. And then we got the one obstacle was the last obstacle last trail last day of the weekend. She couldn't get it up there. And I'm telling her exactly, I'm like, you have to do this, you have to do this. Once it gets to that point, you got to know no one to go. And she and she just couldn't get it. And Weyland was sitting there absorbing everything I was saying and knowing exactly what she was doing wrong. And Shannon said, All right, let brother drive and wail and jumped in the seat one shot at it. And I think that that made her angry. Because, you know, he was watching exactly what what she was missing from the passenger side, which that was the important thing on that obstacle, whatever. But then that next week, one of the one of the Undertaker's buddies that, you know, had known Shannon and pitted for him and co H and everything and had asked me if I wanted to help whatever goes, Hey, I'm Shanna wants your number, he wants to call you, okay? And he called me and he said, Hey, you know, you're really good at spotting out there on those trails. We need a spotter for you rock, you know, would you do that? And I said, Sure. Well, the next event was in Tucson, so I didn't have to go anywhere. And actually spotted for Nick, not not for Shannon, and Nick and I ended up winning, I think three of the four events that season and winning the championship two, and then from there Shannon's like, Hey, you want to go desert racing with us? So we, you know, Vegas to Reno, and, you know, Parker and and, you know, but but at the same time throughout that season, hey, you want to go ultra for racing with us? And sure. And then it just event? You know, I ended up you know, he's like you just with? I don't know, I guess the way I think you guys jive being like the strategist for this is where we're gonna pit for this for fuel. And this is what we needed this pit. And this is what we need to do and whatever. Yeah. So that's how that all started. And then once Whalen got old enough to race, he's like, hey, I want to build him a two seat car. Let's build him a two seat car and you could drive for. Okay, so done. Yeah.
Wyatt Pemberton :All right. And I've sat in on a fair number of those strategy, conversations of strategy meetings in the Campbell trailer. And you know, it's all sitting around and writing on the on the whiteboard, like, where the fuel is, what the game plan is, what the Intel is on what other teams are doing, when they're going to pit what their strategies look like, what it looks like, for the three car, the five car, the 35 car, and kind of how that kind of is gonna set up. And you are, you're kind of the crew chief on that you're kind of like the lead strategist and in there, and you've got, you know, Matt Taylor feeding you data. But then you've got Shannon Whalen and Bailey, you know, they're buying in there yet. That's what we're gonna do are, well, let's look at this. And then you show them the pitfalls of what that looks like. And so, you know, massively impressive. It's like, you can tell that, you know, Miller sits down and does all this homework, you know, leading into the event. And everyone else kind of does their stew, but then you when you guys sit down and put pen to paper, what it looks like, it's, you can tell that yeah, that family and that team and that race organization, that race company, you are a pillar with inside that.
Ryan Miller :We put a we definitely put a lot of time into her. I mean, k wages, it's the big race, right. We put a lot of time into what we are going to do, you know, as support pit, whatever on out there for the whole week, not just on race day,
Wyatt Pemberton :and it's multiple races. Yeah, because you guys run UTV.
Ryan Miller :Yes. The utvs adds a whole, whole whole nother ballgame to it.
Wyatt Pemberton :in which you can tell us exactly. You know, Shannon loves the utvs, doesn't he? He just loves them. Like he
Ryan Miller :likes the utvs Yeah. But he does love his his big car, too.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah. As soon as the UTV race is over. He's like, get them on the trailer and get them out of here. Yeah, he loves racing them, but he's like I'm done with them. By that time.
Ryan Miller :I'm 100% with the get them on the trailer and get him out of here because we we don't want any more stuff to work on.
Wyatt Pemberton :matter how to get on that trailer. Just get on that trailer,
Ryan Miller :the pecking order on which one goes on the trailer, or which ones I should say or which ones are in the worst condition because we need the rest of them to drive around for the rest of the weekend.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's right. That's exactly right. And Nobody messes with with Tommy's general.
Ryan Miller :No, do not touch Tamizh general.
Wyatt Pemberton :That's like the that's like the only rule. Yeah, you can lean on it. That's it. Don't think you're gonna do I think she'll
Ryan Miller :let me drive it but she might still be mad about it.
Wyatt Pemberton :Well, love her. Man. Love her. So yeah, I mean, as we kind of get through this, you you drove for what you Khodro for Weyland for quite a while. How many years man I two Three.
Ryan Miller :It's hard to say I poured together two and a half to three because I think it was once Bailey wanted to race. Then I got thrown into the car with Bailey. And actually, Jason Berger, who co drives for sure. First Shearer in 4400. But he also co drives for Shannon in UTV Berger actually help. He spotted for Nick and we rock as well, so and he's not a stranger to any of this stuff. So he actually co drove with Weland until Weyland graduated to a single seat car.
Wyatt Pemberton :And if anyone wants to hear Jason burgers story, go back to Episode 24. I had burger on. I love that guy. I mean, every episode I've done and been my favorite people, but that one I didn't know anything about him and holy crap. I love that guy. What a amazing human
Ryan Miller :That guy is. Yeah, it's always fun and interesting on kayo h week because you know, you have Jason cheer and Shannon, the two three time teams, and they have the same co driver but for two different races.
Wyatt Pemberton :fighting over in disease. Yes, he's a as Jason Shiro say he's the winningest co driver in rock sports.
Ryan Miller :I believe that.
Wyatt Pemberton :I don't know if I've never fact checked that. But I believe it will be true. It is probably true. But then somewhere in there you you Khodro for Bailey a little.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, Shannon had built her that her solid axle car and it was supposed to be a trail rig and he turned it into a racecar. So then he ended up building the trail rig after that, which was what we called the 30 pack Bailey solid axle car. She had you know Whalen actually qualified for kayo h in the old top track car that he had built the previous year. And then Shannon's like well I guess we better build a real race car because that's not a real race car. So we built him a two cdfs well then Bailey came along and he's like well we'll build a solid axle because his thing was with Weyland because Weyland I drove that top truck car a couple times he's like you need to learn how to drive with no horsepower and basic stuff so a solid axle stock LS three nothing fancy for both of them actually. But then Whalen got di Fs car but still stock LS three Bailey's car was the same way co drove for her and that for a little bit and and then he said Is she out of motor? And I said yes she is driving that car as hard as you possibly can. And the motor is why people are passing her and straightaways she's she's out driving them in corners, and she's getting passed and straightaways by people she shouldn't be being passed by because she doesn't have enough motor. And that's what he wanted to know. So he ended up putting a go fast motor in that solid axle car which was a little bit too much for because the floor in that car got smokin hot. I'm pretty sure because Terry also code rover in that car too. After that motor got put in there. And I'm pretty sure both of us have had blisters on the feet. Man, one race. Fallon one year when he was co driving whether they dropped a rag on the floor and it started on fire. The floor were so hot, because it was that car wasn't built with that motor in mind, you know, not at all. So the exhaust was, was not quite the right size. So it had a little extra heat to it.
Wyatt Pemberton :So comparing your one of the very few guys out in the world that have have written with both of these to Weyland and Bailey, them being siblings growing up together in the same house under the same you know, tutelage. What is the differences compare the two?
Ryan Miller :Well, I was just thinking about this before even Moab. You know, going back to k, ah, this year with Bailey, I think it's, the difference is is now that Bailey is Whelan's age, when I kind of didn't co drive for him anymore, because I know Berger only jumped in that two seater a couple times. And then he had Shannon's old car. But I think it's just that now that Bailey's pretty much age, Weyland was when he kind of you know, came out and started putting this car on the podium and getting a couple pins. I feel like that's where Bailey's now, you know, before, you know, if you compare the same the same at the same time, you know, two years ago, you know, Bailey was a little bit more held back. And she was a little more. I don't know if this is the right word, but timid in the rocks per se, which, you know, that's something you have to learn. Some people learn it fast. Some people learn it slow, but growing up around rocks for the both of them, they obviously get it. It's just how fast they're able to go in the rocks and keep it smooth. I think that's been the biggest difference with her over the years at Keio H is, you know, she gets the desert she, she bombs the desert, no problem. But when you get in the rocks, I felt like you know, the previous years. That's where she gave up some of her time. But I didn't feel that way this year.
Wyatt Pemberton :She seemed very smooth and 2020.
Ryan Miller :Yes, that's why I say, you know, comparing it to Wayland three or four years ago. That's like the same now. You know, that's pretty cool that Yeah, is you?
Wyatt Pemberton :It's like timing, right? Yeah.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. uncorrected time. Third, there even. Right. Yes. Yes, correct. Time. I love No. So there's a really good story that one of the very first times you end up you will, you are co driving for Bailey. And then she had to get out of the car for some reason. And you became her driver, you were the driver. And
Wyatt Pemberton :you're laughing because
Ryan Miller :she didn't get out of the car she stayed in. So it was her first co H. We had qualified the previous year in Indiana, just eating mud the entire time. And there's a picture somewhere online. And every time it pops up in my stories on whatever day it happens to be. I always look at that picture. And it makes me smile, because that was the first race she did in that car. We qualified her for kayo H and we wind up losing an alternator. So it was one of those races where you get as many laps as you can in a designated amount of time. And as soon as we lost the alternator like the time was up. So all we could, all we could have done was finished that lap but it was enough to qualify her. And we were covered in mud. The car was covered in mud, you couldn't see a white speck on that thing. You couldn't see anything of us other than the whites of our eyes and our teeth and his mud,
Wyatt Pemberton :you know, everything
Ryan Miller :tear offs and rags there wasn't enough in the world. So we were just running it, you know? So that's how we got our qualified for co h but then we go to kale. Ah, and, you know, you have to think Bailey isn't large at all. She's a small little thing.
Wyatt Pemberton :She's like, is she 5253?
Ryan Miller :I don't want her to get mad at me. But I think she's five one or five two. Yeah, she's she's very small. And you have to think also that helmets are mostly about the same size. They're not. I mean, there's little differences slightly, but they all weigh almost the same. Well, she hadn't been in a race car for more than like two or three hours ever combined. At that time when we started kale Ah, and I think we were at like our 12 or something. And we were on lap three. And we were in spooners Outer Limits loop that gets added every time. And she's like Miller, I can't do it anymore. I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm quitting. And I was like, No, you're not quitting. You want me to drive the car for a little bit? And she's like, yes. And so she jumped in the passenger seat, and I jumped in the driver's seat. And if anyone's ever seen how the car setup for her their seat risers and extra floors and pedal extensions, and I
Wyatt Pemberton :built one or two and you're six foot one.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, I somehow wedged myself into that side of her car, my knees were touching the dash, like all the time. And I drove a lap three of kayo H. And we pulled into the pits. One of the pit guys like Bailey want to get out of the car. And she's like, No, I'm staying in the car. And I she wanted to cross that finish line. And Shannon said, You do whatever you can and make sure that car crosses that finish line, whether it's in, you know, third, or 10th or 20th. Or if it's after time expires properly, make sure she crosses that finish line. And that was the year when we cross the finish line like two or three hours after the cutoff and they turn the live feed back on because our pit crew stayed out there that entire time. And made sure that she made it to the finish line that year, that that's the most important. He's like you'd have to finish races. You have to get to the finish line. You do whatever you can to get to the finish line. And it wasn't you know, we just had some bad luck at the beginning of the day and we got stuck in lap traffic and that it is what it is but I ended up driving the third lap and the reason why I started laughing when you said that is Bailey actually fell asleep in the passenger seat of the car. And they wrapped a hoodie around her neck underneath her helmet so that her head wouldn't bobble around when I pulled in. You know I pulled into the pits and she's like practically sleeping and they grabbed it. And it was you know, all the hammers trails, you know wrecking ball, jack all those were in. And then you had to go across the MDR course which I think you're aware of is the you're really worked out east to west areas, some big like 70 across there. And I look over and she's passed out with sleeping neck. And I'm trying to look at the GPS from the driver sides to make sure I make the right turn off of the course of there. Because it's, you know, dark. But we I made it all the way through that. And I got to like, where the last pit goes towards backdoor Tamra town, like 10 miles, and I stopped. And I said, All right, that's as far as I'm driving, you're driving it the rest of the way, and put her in. And she jumped back in the driver's seat and drove it. But I think that that, that, you know, kind of made her think for the following years, you know, that, that's, that's a lot of time you have to be in the race car. It's not like a two to three hour race. It's a September, the next year, we ran into the same, the same thing where we ran into some bad luck. We're out on course, way, way, way long. And halfway through lab three, she was exhausted, you know, because we'd been in the car for 12 or 13 hours at the time. But once that the first two years were over she she finished it after that all the time. So
Wyatt Pemberton :and she's finished ever she's finish every cailleach right?
Ryan Miller :Yeah, I mean, I don't think she got an official finish the first year but but she's finished every Kalay since then.
Wyatt Pemberton :So let's talk 2020 km h 2020. This is the this is the Heartbreaker.
Ryan Miller :That's a this is
Wyatt Pemberton :a heartbreaker, and I'll tell it from my side, my side is everyone's gonna you know, everyone's gonna hear it right here how terrible an individual I am. I get in my like I watch and get everybody off the line that morning. And then I go get in my truck. And I peel out for Texas and I turn the light feed on and I watch the race as I'm headed back to Texas, so I'm not there for the race. I'm not there for the finish. I'm just trying to get him on. You know, whatever. 810 days you've been on the lake bed I'm like I'm at this point I'm done. And the coverage the ultra for puts on four k which is the live coverage is so good. So there I am bombing down. I 10 headed back to Texas, and see Whalen start blowing steam on whichever climate was so that I am Yeah, I'm calling Matt Taylor. And I'm like Matt, wait, Wayland is still fully under power. He's still at race speed, but he is losing all all coolant. You know, do you know? Are you aware or radio him if he doesn't know because, you know, with the rear engine car and the radiator mounted pie, you don't necessarily know that you're blowing off steam, especially if you're going to speed and yeah, he's like, Cool. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And then a couple hours later, there it is. You guys, you Bailey driving you in the past that you've worked your way into first. And y'all were in first for a long time. Like in the whole world was pulling for this girl, this woman. Everyone's pulling for her. I mean, it was her it was her day. It was her day, it was her day until it wasn't. And then y'all you guys had kind of a little bit of a catastrophic, and the day got away from me. And we, you know, Bly learned at winning, but walk us through what, what was going on in your head? And what was going on in that car. As you guys were leading in? Did you know you were leaving?
Ryan Miller :Well, going back to lap one. We knew we had a good pace going. Because we could actually see the three other Campbell cars in front of us every time you would make like a 90 turn. You could see we couldn't tell whose car was what, but we could definitely tell one of those is Shannon and one of them is Brian and one of them is Weyland. And we knew he had passed quite a few people. And we pulled into main pit. And I guess at the end of last one they told us we were 30 seconds off of shear for the corrected time lead, which we knew we were we had pre ran and we had the GPS marked and we were doing exactly what we wanted to do. We plan for everything we knew where our lines were, we knew in dust what we needed to, you know, be careful of. Because we were in dust the entire lap one we could not see anything. Hardly. And we knew where to run the car, you know, basically. And we started lap two and they told us Hey, you guys are 30 seconds behind Jason for the lead. And we're like, all right, well, we're, you know, just going to run our base still. And so we ran lap two. And I think when we left remote pit two is when they told us that we were corrected time we were the lead but we weren't the physical lead car, right. The only cars in front of us were at that time were Jason JP Gomez and Cameron steel. And we had caught Cameron going into chocolate thunder and we passed him he passed us back we passed him we passed him back on and off through vendor alley wrecking ball over the top of the go trail you know, and down, down on The EMDR course. And he had he passed us coming out of one of those last rock trails, and then they instantly flooded the tire. And we got by him. And then as soon as we turn towards guacamole Jason cheer was pulled over there. And him and Jason Berger were out, we're already out of the car. And they were jumping up and down on top of their car cheering us on when we went by, because obviously, they knew they were. So they knew that we were now the second place car behind JP, we didn't know that. And then we went to the top of resolution started dropping down resolution. And there's JPS car right at the top resolution pulled over on the side. And he was still in it. He was just working on getting out. And we didn't know at the time that he was the lead car. So we came down into hammer town, and we see no dust out in front of us the whole time. And we pulled up to the pit. And that was our first fuel stop. Actually, we did the full first two laps cuz Bailey's car has a pretty big fuel tank. And that was part of our strategy is we're not putting for fuel until after lap two. And we pulled into the pit and they started fueling us and I asked one of our pit guys, I'm like, Who are we in first? And they're like, you are first in time and first physically? And we're like, oh, wow. Okay, so we did not know that. You know, we were just still running our pace. We had, you know, like I said, we pre ran the course and all the rocks. And we knew exactly where we were going on the rock trails, we need to pace we wanted to run. And we were going to run our pace. And that was you know, what our plan was in if someone wanted to run faster. Okay, so we started lap three, we had clean air for the first time. I mean, pretty much all day. You know, we had segments of clean air during lap two, because we start you know, cars, there's only a handful of guys still left in front of us. But we are still running them down. And we started lap three and everything felt great. Once Bailey got clean air, she, you know, we were running about 15 miles an hour faster than we were on lap one and two, obviously, because we can see. Yeah, and we weren't I mean, the car had plenty more, we just didn't want to go too fast. So they were giving us updates, because Cameron was in second then after you change that tire. And so they were giving us updates at the pits when they could have you know how far behind us he was so and we were running about even to his pace. So we're like, Alright, this feels comfortable. We're just gonna stay here. And you know, we worked our way through lap traffic out in the desert and the rock trails and stuff. And we made it all the way out to Emerson, where you loop in to do the last rock loop before you come to the finish. And going across Emerson, one thing we we always talk about is there's no point in doing 120 or 130 across the lake bed unless you need to, you know, are you racing somebody? Are you trying to catch somebody that's right in front of you, because that's pretty hard on the car. You know, you're zinging it pretty good. So Bailey kick, you know, we were doing about 95 was our pretty average speed out in the desert on lab three going into that, and she only went up to about 105 going across the lake bed, just keep it don't don't ever, ever the motor, just keep it calm, are good. You know, once we hit the rocks, just just like lab two will be fine. And we got to the end of the lake bed, she led off, we started going up that little trail up the mountain. And as soon as we went to make that turn to go up the mountain, she's like up, lost the belt. No biggie, jumped out and put a belt on. So I jumped out to put the belt on and go to the back of the car. Go to put the belt on and the part you slip it on is the water pump and the water pump pulley moved when I touched it and I went, Oh, that's a problem. And I was like Bailey, we have a problem. And she's like, what I go the water pump pulley is shattered around the shaft. And she's like, Oh, that's not good. Like, and I was I was heartbroken for her because, you know, that's not nothing. I'm in her control.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, it's a you know, a $90 pulley.
Ryan Miller :Yeah. And it was, you know, we had run totally flawless and clean up to that point. You know, we didn't slam into any rocks. We didn't want to we didn't take any bad lines in the rocks. Nothing. And we're like, Ha, boy. So, like, what can we do from here? Well, Wayland out, Brian's out. We're, you know, let's see if Shannon will bring us a water pump. So he brought us a whole water pump pulley and everything because you know, he ain't gonna change that without a press. And we ended up waiting about I think it was an hour and 45 minutes for Shannon because he had changed a transmission after lap one. So he was a waste. Behind us Plus he had to get to where we were from the pit which was mean there's no pit between Maine in there
Wyatt Pemberton :but I want to throw this in there she hadn't changed and he's done this multiple races and we've seen other competitors change the transmission during the race still to get the finish. I mean that is the commitment that's the yeah never say die. We're not stopping we're not stopping until the green flag is no longer out. Yeah, this course is no longer hot. We are going to be racing. I think
Ryan Miller :he ended up 10th or 11th to
Wyatt Pemberton :yeah wouldn't mad
Ryan Miller :which that's one thing about our cars and you were mentioning Matt Taylor and the design on them and Shannon is a big part of that too is all of our cars are very easy to change transmissions of he's like I don't want a car that you have to get the interior interior or it takes you got to pull the fuel tank or it takes seven hours for some reason to change the transmission. He's like I think they timed it they changed it in the pit and an hour and five minutes and it was hot. Like he just finished last one and he said I think I'm losing I forget what gear was but he got it he got it there with the other two remaining gears and they changed it so
Wyatt Pemberton :it's never quit
Ryan Miller :we ended up waiting for Shannon got the water pump he brought coolant change the water pump got some coolant in it, cycled it put you know topped it off and then Bailey and I started finishing our lab three and like I said it was it was a heartbreaker telling her Hey, you know we're kind of done. You know we're not done done. But we're, we're done being out in front and taking this thing home. But after we fix the car she you know we got going again and she drove exactly like she did on lap two. We went through the rocks really clean. You know, I got out once in Winston aftershock. The the main line on aftershock That was a tough one. You know, those ifms cars don't have the steering of a solid axle car. So it's a little bit tough to get up on that ledge and turn it but that was the only time I got out of the car. Other than when we thought we had just thrown a belt.
Wyatt Pemberton :So I mean, you guys are nailing you're nailing your spots on pacing. you're nailing your strategy, you're executing exactly to plan it's working out Bailey's driving smooth as possible. Just clean and she's gotten really fast and clean. And then just to suffer such a heartbreaker. There was a collective sigh that went across hammer town when that kind of news came out that you guys were off the side and that there was a break issue.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, that was a it was it was tough. But that's you know,
Wyatt Pemberton :that's part of racing. That is Yeah, but still, that doesn't mean it doesn't sting.
Ryan Miller :It's tougher when it's nothing that's your fault, you know, which she she was driving a flawless race. And she even even did so after we got the car fixed. You know, she picked it, you know, many places back off on our way to the finish. But in the rocks, lab three with the extra rock trails. She absolutely killed it. Just that one that one line on aftershock, I had to jump out and winch no biggie. But other than that she was just like lab too.
Wyatt Pemberton :So Well, I mean, so some of the notes I had down, I want to go over and we've actually just hit every single one, you basically hit hit my strategy, but you know, there's so much stuff that we've talked about that is just impeccable, is just like the value of the Campbell team effort. I mean, the value across all four cars in the effort of this, you never, you know Never Say Die, right? And the value of your strategy is you guys basically put a strategy out there for it's all for cars, but then it says a team as well. You're wrong. As soon as the green flag drops some of those change. But you guys are very, very good about triage and and if it means Shannon, you know, or wailing or sewing, throwing wrenches out or throwing parts out or whatever. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've heard a story of Shannon bomb going across whatever at 100 miles an hour with an alternator bounced around on his lap or a starter on his lap or whatever it is that type of we're not done until somebody tells us we're done because we don't know how to stop the value of finishing. And a lot of people I'm gonna even throw myself in there included willingness to throw in the towel versus the willingness to never throw in the towel and when you run around with that mentality in exactly what happens in Campbell in a present camp is this it's it's contagious. It's like in baseball, they say you know hitting is contagious. You know, it's it's attitude and when everyone has that same attitude, then no one wants to be the one to say hey, we're done. Because whoever says it is like boom. quitter and yeah, and sometimes don't euro as everyone knows, there comes a time when especially King the hammers were you know 75% of the field has to at some point come to the realization that they need to be a quitter. And they need to be a quitter that time not that they selected out the day to be a quitter, but they have to at some point you throw you have to throw in the towel because you've kind of strategically failed, right? That's Yeah, that's just that's what the course does. That's why it's the single single hardest one day race in the world. The other one that I have is the vibe of controlling what's in your control and recognizing what's not. That's exactly what happened to Balian here, you Balian, u k, which 2020 this year. You know, you can wrap your head around this, this wasn't anything that we did. This wasn't a strategy issue. We didn't mess up. We just had an equipment failure. We had a mechanical failure on a pulley. Well, how do you plan for that? No. Right. I mean, that's just that's, I mean, it was crazy. And you know, when those guys came across the, you know, the live feed and said, you know, kind of what took y'all out? This collective? Felt felt so bad for you guys. I mean, pulling for you, guys. So man, one of the last things before we start talking about the future that I want to ask you about is get your input on because I know you had to have an opinion. I think it's a very, I think it's a very good grounded one. But advice for guys getting into Ultra4 getting into racing, and you know, they're gonna race, right, they're gonna race, but then they immediately think, well, I'm gonna race so I'm a racer, so I need sponsors. It doesn't work that way.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, that's, uh, you know, one thing I saw a lot to myself racing. Obviously, it's on a much different scale than the Campbell race team, right? Is, guys think, Oh, I want to be a racecar driver, you should sponsor me. And it's you have to, you know, it's the return on investment for them, you have to give them something back marketing wise, you know, what are they getting out of this, if they're not getting anything, they're not going to give you anything. If you're a nobody, you can't expect someone to just jump on board and give you whatever you want. You got to go out there, you got to, you got to run, what you can run and go from there. And number one thing is, you know, you have to finish races, you can't just go out and go buck wild. When every time the green flag flies and wreck your car,
Wyatt Pemberton :or as simple as uh, you know, signing up to race you mail in your interface, you start, you know, you take the green, you take every single green, you know, the series as, but you just, you know, never finish well, or you don't finish. Yeah, you can't sit back and say, the world owes me anything.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, I saw a lot of a lot of that in the race. And I was doing of you know, guys wanted to race and they thought that just because they proclaimed as they were racing, that people were just going to jump at the opportunity to sponsor them. And that's not though. I mean, sponsorship is it's like another job, even at the small scale that I did it at, you know, I'm not at the scale of some of these, these big name teams, like, you know, obviously, you know, I'm with the Campbells. But, you know, like Lauren Healy and Vaughn. Like those guys. That's it. Yeah, you see them and you're like, oh, man, I want to do that. It's a job. You know, it's it's not like you just get to go out and screw off and someone else pays for it all the time.
Wyatt Pemberton :No, yeah, I think that's exactly the key right there is like you're gonna start out you're gonna earn every dollar that you earn, these are future dollars, by time in the shop, doing prep, getting your strategy, right, getting your parts, right, getting your spares, right getting, that's that constant, constant constant, and then you still got to do marketing. You got to put on your marketing hat and you still got to be social media savvy, you've got to engage photographers, you've got to buy photo packages from events, you've got to go out and do testing on your car, as well as you need to go out and do tuning with a videographer a photographer, somebody take capture you in non race stuff, you know, where they can actually get stage shots that you can truly use in social media. And you can use in regular media in print media or in other forms of audio video media, in that is outside of the green flag and that's outside of your shop prep. And that's so guys like Lauren and Vaughn and,
Ryan Miller :and like you're saying, unless you're that's what you do full time that's outside of you doing your job to your you know, you let's
Wyatt Pemberton :say you then you have a wife and you have kids and your kids have activities. So these guys that are doing it full time and 100% Yeah, no, Your Honor. I'd love to sit back and say oh yeah, I want to be a professional racecar driver into this. I am sitting on this side of the screen to you today and in everyone's sitting there cars are driving right now listening to this podcast. I'm over here going. The last thing I ever want to be this point in you I wish I would have known this about myself even 1215 years ago, you think you want to be a professional racecar driver. But now I've been on that side. I'm like, there's no effing way. I want it. I want that job. That's not a job that I want. I do like the, hey, let's, you know, I like my shop time. I like to go out and you know, work out some aggressions, maybe get a little red mist in the eyes. But the game that's being played at the top 1520 drivers and ultra for Oh, I truly want to a part of it. That's that's too much of a job becomes a job on that level. I'm out. Right. I love my family too much. I love my kid Tom too much. I you know, but I envy those guys for they have the wherewithal to be able to pull it off.
Ryan Miller :It's definitely a lot of work and a big commitment.
Wyatt Pemberton :And I hope people that listen to this that that's clean and clear advice for him like, oh, man, I really never thought about it in that regards. Like, I truly need a 30 hour day.
Ryan Miller :Yeah, no kidding. You gotta be like men and blacks and tarean time. No, no. You mean 37 hours a day.
Wyatt Pemberton :For real? Seriously? Even might not be enough. Yeah, or the ability clone yourself. So man, so the future, the future you're gonna continue racing for Bailey. In the 35 az. That's certainly going to go at a minimum through kayo h probably even through probably race one a 21. Maybe even further.
Ryan Miller :Right. I mean, we'll see. It's Bailey. She wants to get back in her car. I can tell you that she's she's fierce.
Wyatt Pemberton :Fight. He is five foot a fury. Call the triple F. She kicked my butt for calling for saying five foot two back. I'm five one now. I know Bailey, listen to this. And then and then she won't respond to my text and should just stay angry at me. I love her for that. Yeah, man. So you guys, you're gonna work on that cailleach win here in 21. You and Michael Pendleton tried it try to get Bailey a win. I don't think that has the same feeling to her. Like, even if you got let's say you guys when? And she's driver record. Right? Well, how is that gonna work for?
Ryan Miller :That doesn't count. She has to win.
Wyatt Pemberton :Right? That's right. For here.
Ryan Miller :Oh, that's I told her. I said Bailey, we how are we gonna win? kayo Ah, 2021. Now,
Wyatt Pemberton :yeah, she's like, what she she can get in the? I mean, she's gonna be super pregnant at that point. She can't even get in for a start or a finish. So does that mean that does that mean you will be driver record for 21?
Ryan Miller :I don't I don't even know what the plan is yet. Cross. We're trying to plan for nationals, because that's coming up here in four weeks. And in the meantime, I've got I've got this rebel stuff to deal with. So we got our hands full.
Wyatt Pemberton :And you still have a job?
Ryan Miller :Yes. Yeah, there's that
Wyatt Pemberton :little thing that we use to pay bills? Oh, my gosh, man. Do you? Do you think that this time in Bailey's card opens any other 4400 doors for you? Or do you even want them to be open?
Ryan Miller :I don't know. Like, like, I was just, you know, we were just talking about it's a huge commitment to be able to run at that level. I don't I don't know.
Wyatt Pemberton :When races that that'll solve some problems. I'm sure it'll eat, at least open the doors. And then you have the ability to say yay or nay.
Ryan Miller :When you have to. I know Bailey's. She works her butt off. She is at the shop every day. She's working on her car, she's working on something for her car. She's working on something, marketing wise, something. And that's, you know, that's what she does. And that's a lot of work. But you know, it's also her car. So it's, I can say it's easy for me, quote unquote, to just show up and co driver, whatever, but it's still, you know, even anyone on the team does a lot of work.
Wyatt Pemberton :Yeah, you're you're kind of this like arrive and drive prima donna now, now
Ryan Miller :with the current schedule, kind of because of you know, I've got I've got to get this Jeep ready for my wife and then take her up to Tahoe. And then when I get back, we have one weekend. And then we go to Nationals.
Wyatt Pemberton :So well. I will see you in Oklahoma. Man Ryan, thank you for for agreeing to come on the talent tank. Thank you for sitting down with me. Thank you for just being awesome. Thank you for the insight into what's going on there. Campbell's right now. I think it's super cool. When I I heard that you were you were going to pick up the reins and you're going to be the driver for the 35 car. I was pretty excited. I mean you've you've earned that you have the skill set for that. It's in definitely if there was ever any doubts, you know, I think those were set aside after Moab this past weekend. I mean aside from you know your propensity to flat tires on the right side but um
Ryan Miller :yeah
Wyatt Pemberton :Well, we'll dig that in there, man. Ryan did did a did we cover everything you kind of wanted to get out there?
Ryan Miller :I think we did.
Wyatt Pemberton :Thank you did man I had a great time. I hope everyone the the pulled this streaming up and listen to the talent tank. Listen to Miller here for the last two hours. Thank you. Thank you guys for for listening on that note, Brian. We're out.
Ryan Miller :Thanks for having me. Why?
Wyatt Pemberton :Oh, absolutely. We'll catch you guys next week. Have a good one.
Intro/Outro :Thank you for listening and taking the dive into the tail end take please like and subscribe on Instagram. For our website, the talent tank.com Transcribed by https://otter.ai